The Official 420genetics COCO Growers and Info thread

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Due to the insane lack of information on this site about coco I think that it's my duty to make that situation better. I also have this thread over on Gk and I want it to be here to. There will be a lot of copy and pasting of stuff but there will be given credit where credit is due.


Okay to start things off though I want to list some things that are important that has to be done to your coco ,coco/other soiless like perlite ect. mixes before you can plant in it and also note the main differences between soil and coco and why the coco is getting to be the preferred method of growing indoors.


1. No matter what brand of coco you get I would flush it out as much as humanly possible with HOT water. Hot water will dissolve the sea salts that has built up in the coco and it will leach out of the bottom of whatever container you decide to do the "flushing" in.

2. Coco is best mixed with either hydroton or perlite at a rate of perlite/hydroton to coco of no greater than 50/50. 70/30 or 60/40 coco to perlite/hydroton is the most commonly used method.

3. You MUST buy yourself some epsom salts or a Calcium/ Magnesium supplement! This is IMPORTANT because the coco witholds Ca/Mg and releases (K).

4. For the reason that it releases high amounts of (K) it's a good idea to get COCO specific nutrients if at all possible. However most popular nutrient lines such as Botanicare(PBP), General Hydroponics, Metanaturals, Flora Series ect. ect. will work.But for the beginner Coco specific nutrients are best.

5. Before planting small seedlings or anything into the coco you must pre fertilize with 1/4 to 1/2 strength nutrient solution with some epsom salts/CalMag mixed in as the COCO is barren of all nutrients.

6. Dont' let your COCO completely dry out between waterings.

7. It can be treated like either soil or hydro and has the benefits of both as you can water as much as once to twice a day(treating it like hydro) you can get tremendous growth as the coco ( if mixed with perlite/ hydroton) pretty much can never be overwatered...ever.

8. Or you can treat it like soil and water it every 2-3 days.

9. When mixed with perlite/ hydroton the mix has an almost perfect air/water retention ratio of 50/50.

10. Keep your ph between 5.5 and 6.0 to avoid too many problems. This isn't soil and anything over 6.0 can cause problems and lockout.

Now from here on out I will post some things that were posted in my other thread. I will organize them more here.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

What is Coco Peat (Coir) and why is it desirable as a soiless growing media?
This info courtesy of cnowy grower on hg420.com
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(FYI)

Coco (Coir) is the outside layer of husk that surrounds the shell of the coconut.

It consists mainly of fibres, which have traditionally been used to manufacture rope, carpets, doormats, upholstery stuffing, brushes etc.
Between these fibres is the corky substance called coir pith or coir dust which has recently been widely recognised as the superior growing medium in which to grow tomatoes, roses and many other crops.
The horticulture industry often calls this substrate coco-peat or coir-peat. Sometimes it is known by similar sounding brand names

Why Coir you ask...

For starters it has excellent "Air Porosity qualities":
Coir maintains excellent air porosity even when saturated and gives better crops with faster developing roots and more flowers and fruit per plant when used correctly.

It also has excellent "Water Retention" qualities:
Coir has better water retention qualities then peat and other growing media...

That all means that coco has an excellent air/water ratio for horticultural purposes .

It quickly Reabsorbs Water From A Dry State:
Coir peat absorbs moisture immediately, even from a dry state, unlike sphagnum peat which tends to shrink when dry and form a crust.
This causes water run-off from the top surface and water loss between the peat and the inside edge of the flower pot. Thus plants growing in coir tend to recover quicker from dry conditions.

"Irrigation Efficiency":
The ease of re-wetting and the quick drainage characteristics of coir means that coir needs to be irrigated less frequently and for shorter periods.
This leads to reduced leaching losses of nutrients and lower water use.

Faster Germination Times And Quicker Seedling Rotations:
The inherent qualities of coir and the optimum water/air availability are ideal for quick rooting and propagation. ..

Environmentally Preferable to the Alternatives:
In its unprocessed state, coir dust is a waste product in its country of origin.
Its use therefore, does not involve the destruction of peat bogs and natural wetland wildlife habitat.
It is a renewable resource with no hazardous disposal problems (unlike some alternatives such as rock wool).
Having carefully researched the question, Horticultural Coir Ltd (who's website this article is from) is quite satisfied that the fossil fuel consumption associated with the transport of coir from Asia are no greater, and most likely significantly less that the fuel costs involved in the production and transport of peat-moss and rock-wool...

It degrades Slower Than Many of Its Rivals:
The lignin content of around 45% ensures that the excellent water/air ratio is maintained over a longer period of time.
Thus, for example, good performance is maintained over the commercial life of a rose plant which my be over 5 yeas.

It is free from Soil Diseases:
Because Coir originates above ground, it does not contain any soil diseases.
In fact several studies have indicated that coir substrate brings increased resistance to pythium and other root diseases.

The Production Process (How it's made):
The entire coconut husk is soaked in water and the fibres removed at the fibre factory for the production of brushes, rope, carpets, matting, etc.
The coir pith is unused and becomes a bye-product of the fibre factory process.
Depending upon many factors including the local climate, the soaking method and the particular processes used in the coir fibre factory, the coir pith may be suitable for horticultural use.

If it is of suitable quality, it is moved from the coir fibre factory and the coir pith is then sieved to remove large fibres.
Sieve size and thus particle size will be determined by customers' requirements.
Usually, coir pith is washed at this point to reduce the unwanted salts before being dried to less than 20% moisture.
The coir will then be compressed into a less bulky form suitable for shipment.
This may be in the form of grow-bags, small 650-gram briquettes or larger blocks. Compression will vary according to customer's requirements but in most cases it will usually be between 4:1 up to an 8 To 1 ratio.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Here is some more from Snowey Mountain over on HG420 ... all credit goes to him...

More Coco (Coir) Trivia
(from brainyencyclopedia.com)

Coir is a coarse fibre extracted from husk, the fibrous outer shell of a coconut.

Structure:
The individual fibre cells are narrow and hollow, with thick walls made of cellulose. They are pale when immature but later become hardened and yellowed as a layer of lignin, is deposited on their walls. Mature brown coir fibres contain more lignin and less cellulose than fibres such as flax and cotton and so are stronger but less flexible. They are made up of small threads, each less than 0.05 inch (1.3 mm) long and 10 to 20 micrometres in diameter. White fibre is smoother and finer, but also weaker.

The coir fibre is relatively water-proof and is the only natural fibre resistant to damage by salt water.

Processing:
Green coconuts, harvested after about six to twelve months on the plant, contain pliable white fibres. Brown fibre is obtained by harvesting fully mature coconuts when the nutritious layer surrounding the seed is ready to be processed into copra and desiccated coconut. The fibrous layer of the fruit is then separated from the hard shell (manually) by driving the fruit down onto a spike to split it(De-husking). Machines are now available which crush the whole fruit to give the loose fibres.

Brown fibre:
The fibrous husks are soaked in pits or in nets in a slow moving body of water to swell and soften the fibres. The long bristle fibres are separated from the shorter mattress fibres underneath the skin of the nut, a process known as wet-milling. The mattress fibres are sifted to remove dirt and other rubbish, dried and packed into bales. Some mattress fibre is allowed to retain more moisture so that it retains its elasticity for 'twisted' fibre production. The coir fibre is elastic enough to twist without breaking and it holds a curl as though permanently waved. Twisting is done by simply making a rope of the hank of fibre and twisting it using a machine or by hand. The longer bristle fibre is washed in clean water and then dried before being tied into bundles or hunks. It may then be cleaned and 'hackled' by steel combs to straighten the fibres and remove any shorter fibre pieces. Coir bristle fibre can also be bleached and dyed to obtain hanks of different colours.

White fibre:
The immature husks are suspended in a river or water-filled pit for up to ten months. During this time micro-organisms break down the plant tissues surrounding the fibres to loosen them - a process known as retting. Segments of the husk are then beaten by hand to separate out the long fibres which are subsequently dried and cleaned. Cleaned fibre is ready for spinning into yarn using a simple one-handed system or a spinning wheel.

Uses
Brown coir is used in brushes, doormats, mattresses and sacking. A small amount is also made into twine. Pads of curled brown coir fibre, made by needle-felting (a machine technique that mats the fibres together) are shaped and cut to fill mattresses and for use in erosion control on river banks and hillsides. A major proportion of brown coir pads are sprayed with rubber latex which bonds the fibres together (rubberized coir) to be used as upholstery padding for the automobile industry in Europe. The material is also used for insulation and packaging. The major use of white coir is in rope manufacture. Mats of woven coir fibre are made from the finer grades of bristle and white fibre using hand or mechanical looms.

Coir is recommended as substitute for milled peat moss because it is free of bacteria and fungal spores.

Major producers
Total world coir fibre production is 250,000 tonnes. The coir fibre industry is particularly important in some areas of the developing world. India, mainly the coastal region of Kerala State, produces 60% of the total world supply of white coir fibre. Sri Lanka produces 36% of the total world brown fibre output. Over 50% of the coir fibre produced annually throughout the world is consumed in the countries of origin, mainly India.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

This is a PM between me and captu4ik.. a fellow grower of ours. he has been basically schooling me on the coco and I think the info could use a home here..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Wakenbake
Just wandering what exactly is the best brand of coco to use? I will be ordering some tonight and I want as little hassle with it as possible. Also any pointers on nutrients that are compatible with it would be much appreciated.. I am fed up with soil, and not getting the results I know I should be getting. Thanks in advance man.


I use Botanicare coco, but I mix it 50/50 with perlite. Please note that there are two seperate products : Coco, and Coco Coir. Coco is finely ground, and looks almost like peat moss when it is wet. Coco needs to be mixed with Perlite or it will stay too wet, won't get enough oxygen. Coco Coir is much coarser ground, and resembles what it comes from : coconut shells. Coco Coir doesn't need perlite, it drys out really quick, providing lots of oxygen to the roots.

Assuming that you will be hand-watering, here's the deal : If you don't mind watering every day, use Coco Coir. If you want to feed/water every other day, use Coco and Perlite. If you want to feed/water every 4 to 5 days, use straight Coco. I'd recommend the Coco Coir. As far as what brand, choose Botanicare or any other brand name Coco Coir. The cheap, off-brand stuff can contain salt, which will really fuck you up.

As far as nutes, I use GH Flora series nutes (Grow and Bloom), Cal-Mag, and Liquid Karma. Also some FF bloom enhancers. This is important : When using coco products, they will hold a certain amount of nutes, especially Calcium and Magnesium (that's part of the reason for using Cal-Mag). Because of this, the coco must first be soaked in 1/4 strength nutes. When you buy coco, it is usually in a compressed form. It is necessary to soak it to bust it up. When you do this, don't use water, use 1/4 strength nutes.

If you want exact nute schedules, PM me. I'll be updating my current growlog tonight, so take a look at my WW's. I hate to brag, but they are beautiful. Coco and GH nutes, and some good genetics ...

Hope this helps -- **

[Mr.Wakenbake]

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And some more info for you peeps:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Wakenbake

Really you have answered a lot of questions already except that I hear a lot of people have pH issues with the coco coir.


There should be no pH issues with coco, as it is pH nuetral (7.0), unlike rockwool or anything containing peat or sphagnum moss (most comm'l potting mixes). Something which is very important, although often overlooked, is runoff. When you are using any kind of 'soilless' mix, including coco, when you water, it is necessary to water the plant until 20% of what goes in comes back out, as run-off. This washes the dried up nutes from past waterings out of the coco, ensuring the pH stays nuetral. If you do not get this run-off every watering, your nutes will build up in the coco (or other medium) and turn to salts, which will really mess you up.



Quote:
Now the next question is I gues.... well what is the CORRECT pH to grow at in coco coir, and also how much does it fluctuate and what is done to control that?



Your nutes should be adjusted to a pH of 6.2 to 6.5. If you water like I explained above, you should be able to maintain that. To check the pH of the coco during your grow, catch the first bit of run-off from one plant when you water. Check the pH of this run=off. If things are right, the pH of the run-off will match the pH of the nutes you just watered with. If it isn't, you simply flush them all with 1/4 strength nutes, and start all over again. I've never had to flush.
[/quote]

Remember also, it is impossible to overwater with coco coir.


Thank you captu4ik for the info! I am sure there will be more info to come on this subject as I will be ordering some coco coir soon!

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Since I am totally piggy backing off his thread (and ordering this stuff now), I figured I needed to add something. This is some General info.

I am still bewildered that something this cool exists. It seems to have all the bennifits of hydro with none of the complex set up.

The following information cam from http://www.greeneem.com/

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1534.html
Also, here is a link to a tutorial on Organic Hydro/soil hybrid using Coco Coir. EnjIf WnB doesn't mind, I'll post more stuff if/as I find it.
Thanks again for starting this thread.


Best Alternative to Mined Peat Moss.

CoCo Coir Peat is a proven natural alternative to mined peat moss, therefore using it helps slow down peat extraction from environmentally sensitive swamps world wide. Used as a growing medium/potting medium CoCo Coir Peat outperforms most of the popular brands of Peat and Sphagnum Peats.

Healthy root growth is easy with CoCo Coir Peat 100% natural organic coir. Derived from the husk of the coconut, it is an excellent growing medium for both commercial and home gardening applications. The Hydroponic and Horticulture Industries have observed that plants grown with the aid of coir develop larger roots, stems and blooms. This is because unlike ordinary soil, which is usually compacted, CoCo Coir Peat provides more breathing space and aeration for plant roots, resulting in better growth

CoCo Coir Peat can retain moisture up to nine times its own volume while maintaining excellent air filled porosity, providing vital oxygen to the roots and soil. It's fibrous and sponge-like structure is ideal for any soil condition, whether breaking up the heaviest of clay soils or retaining moisture in sandy soils. It is by far the most efficient and economical way to rehabilitate degraded soils without the risk of contamination. CoCo Coir Peat has a naturally high lignin content which encourages favorable micro-organisms around the root zone. Having a slow degradation rate, it conditions the soil and promotes the development of an optimum pH level. CoCo Coir peat has been universally accepted as an excellent plant growth substrate as well as a soil additive

CoCo Coir Peat is the future of growing mediums and will last three times as long as Peat Moss and Sphagnum Moss. CoCo Coir Peat is hydrophilic and will re-wet easily without the use of chemical wetting agents and is capable of holding and releasing nutrients.

Applications of CoCo Coir Peat.

Hydroponics, Golf course greens, Potting mixes, Cut flowers, Propagating, Re-planting, Mushroom farming, Bonsai mixes, Turf farming, Garden beds, Bedding medium for Earth worms, Vegetable gardens, Rose cultivation and general garden uses.
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[Mr.Wakenbake]

Okay here goes

*Cation atom or group of atoms carrying a positive charge. The charge results because there are more protons than electrons in the cation. Cations can be formed from a metal by oxidation , from a neutral base by protonation, or from a polar compound by ionization. Cationic species include Na+, Mg++, and NH4+. Salts are made up of cations and anions.)

this is courtesy of jinxie over on icmag.com

For all you hand watering folks remember that just because coco cannot be overwatered it doesn't mean you HAVE to water every day or second day.
Coco is suitable for soil like applications where hand watering occurs every 3-4 days on average.
Watering until some runoff occurs is always good, 25% runoff is a waste just alittle runoff is fine unless you typically overfeed them.
I feed PBPro with calamg @5ml/gallon every 2nd or 3rd watering depending on the growth stage, I used worm casting teas with molasses and some kelp meal as a plain watering between feeding but this is overkill.
You can also feed coco from the bottom up, just fill the saucers under you pots and watch it dissappear.

Remember to rinse the initial medium with calmag as this will release the potassium that occupies most of the initial food web, often young clones/seedling start twisting from overly high K until they are big enough to uptake the high K levels and that calcium ans magnesium start binding in the K's place.

I wish I had not deleted all my grow pics and budshots so I can show you the results and to alesser extent the problems that can occur like calcium def for users not feeding with a coco designed nute regiment.
I am not uploiading pics to any server anymore so others will have to fill in with pictures.

****this also is from over on ic mag and i thought it should be here too:***

this was a post by gaiusmarius
Registered User




Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,656



Current Mood:

Hey Bramski

looks like you have been treating the coco like earth? letting it get dry in between waterings is not good for the plants in coco. at least one watering per day till some run off, is essential. i know one guy who runs his water once every two days. his plants look healthy and everything, but he yields about half what i do with watering 4 times a day. even if the pot feels heavy and the coco looks wet, it still benefits from watering, as it causes an exchange of air in the root zone. that's why multiple waterings works so well in coco, because each watering causes the old air to get forced out, to be replaced by new fresh air as the waters drains off again. under those conditions the plants make hydroponic roots. if you feed once a day or even every 2 days, your plants will make normal earth roots. so decide on a system and stick to it and the plants will recover in no time.

if the return ec is above 1.8, then a good flush with phed tap water is in order, after which you should give them a normal watering with nutes.
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http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=23140&highlight=coco+coir
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1534.html

[Stash]

Nice post mikey !!!!

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Nice post mikey !!!!


thanks man, I figured that I would start adding to the information of this site. leave my mark on it lol...

And also if anyone would like to join the COCO CLUB then you can add your information and pics and gor threads to this thread if you want. links..whatever ect.ect.

Anyways Hope you guys and gals enjoy the info.. I read everything I posted and probably could quote you everything in it lol.. I am still learning though.:thumbsup:

[SFC]

I violated all but rule #5 on my first coco grow. You know what though? It still blew away anything I had done in soil.
Had I not discovered DWC I would have probably been content with it, and even still I doubt I am done with it.

It is totally unnecessary to mix course coco with anything, and especially do not mix it with soil. Not unless you want gnats. Soil mixed with coco never dries.

To maximize coco's potential it should be watered at very least daily. You can still realise better results that soil by watering on every third day, but you will have wasted the hydro like properties of coco. The very best setup would be a grow containers that you could put a single drain on , and pump nutes from a reservior a few times a day, drained to waste. This is a little tricky, but hopefully later this winter I will get around to building one to show you all.

Please do not publish my input anywhere else without my permission.

[herbgrower]

Try this ! :thumbsup:


http://www.gchydro.com/canna.asp

Scroll down for the canna-coco.;)

I have used the Flores range with pretty good success.

[Captu4ik]

This is a PM between me and captu4ik ...

Damn ! Good job, man. Glad you posted our PM's, I didn't realize I was so long winded, though (LOL)!

I agree with SFC, DWC does give somewhat better growth, but my first DWC grows were plagued by root-rot, which is not a problem with coco. Look at my old growlogs here and you will see that I've tried everything except soil, and have lately settled on coco/perlite. It will take a lot for me to change -- Captu4ik.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

I'm sorry for not asking first man, but i figured you wouldn't mind. Isn't that what we are all on here for? To share info and learn? lol ANyways, welcome to the thread and I know that your presence here will only make it better. So if there is any pics of plants or advice you would want to add feel free to add it capt as we are def students of the teacher here lol..:blaze:

[Captu4ik]

I'm sorry for not asking first man, but i figured you wouldn't mind. Isn't that what we are all on here for? To share info and learn?

That's exactly why I'm here ! I've really nothing more to add, but I'll keep an eye here ... Captu4ik.:eek:

[web420]

Excellent Info .......... Mr.Wakenbake :thumbsup:

[Mr.Wakenbake]

The final product of what I am doing with my COCO and WHY?

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Okay fella's so here's another post for you guys and gals out there.
Most of you that know me well know that I change my mind constantly on a regular basis.During a talk with Mike from Mandala Seeds he stressed something to me that I got to thinking about last night. If you are doing Okay in soil then don't switch totally. Going from soil to COCO can be a seriously aggravating process!

Now after reading the Organic Gardening section of Mel Franks book (The Deluxe Marijua Grower's Guide)and after doing some more studying online into soil recipe's using COCO; I have decided to make a soil mixture and stick with it.

The plants that are growing right now in soil are doing so well that I don't see any reason to go straight coco, which by the way means a lot more nutrients being used(even in hand water).Also I don't like the fact that I have to water every day during the whole plants life. Also I truly beilieve in a living soil environment. Coco and organics can be a complicated deal and I'll tell you why.

Since the coco medium has no microorganisms in it (unless you pre add michrochyzzia) organic nuttrients have a hard time being properly absorbed into the plants. I believe that for healthy plants you need some type of humic material(which has "Mike" in it) in there to create a complete environment.


Now on to the coco mix that i am going to be using from here on out.I would consider this a soil, as there are soil materials in there.

The materials list:
1 Coco Coir Classic Block from Sunleaves **washed, soaked, and rinsed**
2 bags of perlite **washed, soaked, and rinsed**
1 40lb bag of GardenPlus Organic Humus ** No chemical nutrients added!**
2 Tsp per gallon of soil of Dolomite lime to bring up the pH which was 5.8


This mix is going to set for 3-7 days and is very moist. I must do this to let the Humus work on the lime to buffer the pH up to about 6.8. I will check the pH every day and adjust as needed .

I read a post last night on pH issues and why Organic Gardeners shouldn't be worrying about them. He claims that he dosnt' own a soil tester, and I have seen his plants. The reason why the Humus was added and not a regular garden soil is because there is nothing there that wasn't put ther by nature and Humus actually is what buffers your pH and makes your plants able to grow and uptake nutients in even extreme pH conditions....

With Humus mixed into the Coco and perlite, I created a fast draining, highly aerated blend that will hold water well and will have about a stable pH(between 6.2-6.8).So now when I add nutrients there should be no need to pH them to a certain level. The Humus and Lime should do all the work for me.


Here is the actual definition of HUMUS by wickipedia:

Humus is a word actually used for two different things, which are both related to soil and thus get used interchangeably.

First, in earth sciences "humus" (see http://www.suprahumic.unina.it/) is any organic matter which has reached a point of stability, where it will break down no further and might, if conditions do not change, remain essentially as it is for centuries, or millennia.

Second, in agriculture, "humus" is often used simply to mean mature compost, or natural compost extracted from a forest or other spontaneous source for use to amend soil.

The process of "humification" can occur naturally in soil, or in the production of compost. Chemically stable humus is thought by some to be important to the fertility of soils in both a physical and chemical sense, though some agricultural experts advocate a greater focus on other aspects of nutrient delivery, instead. Physically, it helps the soil retain moisture, and encourages the formation of good soil structure. Chemically, it has many active sites which bind to ions of plant nutrients, making them more available. Humus is often described as the 'life-force' of the soil. Yet it is difficult to define humus in precise terms; it is a highly complex substance, the full nature of which is still not fully understood. Physically, humus can be differentiated from organic matter in that the latter is rough looking material, with coarse plant remains still visible, while once fully humified it become more uniform in appearance (a dark, spongy, jelly-like substance) and amorphous in structure. That is, it has no determinate shape, structure or character.

Plant remains (including those that have passed through an animal and are excreted as manure) contain organic compounds: sugars, starches, proteins, carbohydrates, lignins, waxes, resins and organic acids. The process of organic matter decay in the soil begins with the decomposition of sugars and starches from carbohydrates which break down easily as saprotrophs initially invade the dead plant, while the remaining cellulose breaks down more slowly. Proteins decompose into amino acids at a rate depending on carbon to nitrogen ratios. Organic acids break down rapidly, while fats, waxes, resins and lignins remain relatively unchanged for longer periods of time. The humus that is the end product of this process is thus a mixture of compounds and complex life chemicals of plant, animal, or microbial origin, which has many functions and benefits in the soil. Earthworm humus (vermicompost) is considered by some to be the best organic manure there is.


[edit] Benefits of Humus
The mineralisation process that converts raw organic matter to the relatively stable substance that is humus feeds the soil population of micro-organisms and other creatures, thus maintaining high and healthy levels of soil life.
Effective and stable humus (see below) are further sources of nutrients to microbes, the former providing a readily available supply while the latter acts as a more long-term storage reservoir.
Humification of dead plant material causes complex organic compounds to break down into simpler forms which are then made available to growing plants for uptake through their root systems.
Humus is a colloidal as substance, and increases the soil's cation exchange capacity, hence its ability to store nutrients by chilation as can clay particles; thus while these nutrient cations are accessible to plants, they are held in the soil safe from leaching away by rain or irrigation.
Humus can hold the equivalent of 80-90% of its weight in moisture, and therefore increases the soil's capacity to withstand drought conditions.
The biochemical structure of humus enables it to moderate – or buffer – excessive acid or alkaline soil conditions.
During the Humification process, microbes secrete sticky gums; these contribute to the crumb structure of the soil by holding particles together, allowing greater aeration of the soil. Toxic substances such as heavy metals, as well as excess nutrients, can be chelated (that is, bound to the complex organic molecules of humus) and prevented from entering the wider ecosystem.
The dark colour of humus (usually black or dark brown) helps to warm up cold soils in the spring.

[edit] Humification of leaf litter and formation of clay-humus complexes
Compost which is readily capable of further decomposition is sometimes referred to as effective or active humus, though again actual scientists would say that if it is not stable, it's not humus at all. This kind of compost is principally derived from sugars, starches, and proteins, and consists of simple organic (fulvic) acids. It is an excellent source of plant nutrients, but of little value regarding long-term soil structure and tilth. Stable (or passive) humus consisting of humic acids, or humins, on the other hand, are so highly insoluble (or tightly bound to clay particles that they cannot be penetrated by microbes) that they are greatly resistant to further decomposition. Thus they add few readily available nutrients to the soil, but play an essential part in providing its physical structure. Some very stable humus complexes have survived for thousands of years. Stable humus tends to originate from woodier plant materials, eg, cellulose and lignins.



Hope you guys enjoy the info. I just couldn't go straight coco... There is just too much of a learning curve for me to do so and end up killing my beautiful plants. So I will still grow with COCO but just in a different form and manner.

Any comments or suggestions is welcom .
:thumbsup:

[MedMan]

The Benefits of Coco Coir
By Erik Biksa

In North America, a trend in indoor gardening has been a shift towards soilless growing practices versus hydroponics. One of the primary differences in this cultural practice is that plants are watered manually. This is usually accomplished with the aid of a submersible pump, length of hose, and a watering wand delivering the nutrient solution from a reservoir/cistern where the nutrients are prepared. While in hydroponics, the nutrients are mechanically circulated to individual planting sights typically via emitters, sprayers, flood/ drain fittings, etc. Also in hydroponics, there is typically much less growing media which is usually inert, and the nutrients are most often re-circulated.

Traditionally peat based soilless mixes have been the most widely used by growers. Bear in mind that you are much more likely to encounter a peat bog in North America than you are a coconut plantation. Since the supply is already in our backyard, it has been the natural choice.

Peat is typically stripped from bogs. The composition of different peat deposits varies widely, depending on the vegetation from which it originated, state of decomposition, mineral content and degree of acidity (Lucas et al. 1971; Patek 1965). The colour may range from dark black to a light tan depending on the source, moisture content, and other parent material present. Basically there are three types of peat: Moss Peat, Reed Sedge, and Peat Humus. The one most commonly found in commercial soilless blends is the Moss Peat variety, which is most often milled from Sphagnum moss. It is relatively inert, light in weight, holds up to 10 times its weight in water, is acidic, has some cation exchange capacity (CEC), and contains little if any beneficial nutrients. Bogs are a relatively “non-renewable” source of growing media when compared to coconut coir.

Coco coir is the fiber that results from the processing of coconuts (the removal of the “nut” from its fibrous encasing). The coir fiber is a by-product of an existing process and is quite renewable when compared to peat moss sources. The fiber is arguably more bio-active than peat fibers resulting from bog conditions. The coconut, as we know it from the grocer’s, is surrounded by tough fibers in a green casing where it is attached to the tops of coconut trees swaying in the breeze in tropical conditions. The coconut tree is a well adapted plant, in its ability to populate an area through the “seed”; the coconut. As the coconut matures on the tree, it breaks free and may fall a considerable distance. It may roll down an elevation before coming to rest, or it may become water borne and float for many months and wash up far from its origin. In any case, the coconut is able to germinate and root itself in sandy and often saline (salty) conditions miles away from its parent conditions. We are talking about a 6 to 8” high octane seed here! As a matter of fact, sterilized coconut milk is often added o the growing media as a source of hormones and nutrients in plant tissue culture.

The coconut is teaming with naturally occurring growth hormones and other bio-stimulants that are inherent to the survival of the species, which fortunately for growers may be found in the fibers surrounding the “seed” which may be processed for use as a growing medium. As with peat, there are factors affecting the quality of use of the coir as a growing medium. The origin and age of the parent material largely plays a role in the fiber qualities. Coconuts harvested when fully mature contain more lignins and cellulose. These fibers are tough and durable enough to manufacture rope from. Interestingly, coconut fiber is the only natural fiber resistant to breaking down in salt water. This helps make it ideal for indoor gardeners, as nutrient solutions, particularly popular inorganic varieties and the salts they contain, play a role in the erosion of growing medias over the course of the crop.

After coconuts are harvested, the fibrous husk is removed from the coconut “seed”. An interesting fact about coconut harvesting from the Royal Botanical Gardens, KEW website: “…in some coconut-growing areas in Indonesia and Thailand the pig-tailed macaque monkey (Pithecus memestrinus) has been trained to climb the trees to collect the nuts. The monkeys are well-treated and prized for their skill….”

After the coir fiber is separated from the nut, it is then soaked in slow moving pools or streams to moisten it, allowing for further separation and processing. If the coir fiber is intended for high value horticultural crops, care must be taken to remove salts. Often these streams are near or contain saltwater. Some sources of coir are high in sodium, as a result of poor conditioning. “Double washed” coir fibers tend to have significantly lower levels of impurities such as sodium.

To help determine the quality of your new and unfertilized coir fiber, flush 1.5 liters of distilled water through 1 liter of growing media, and measure the runoff with a dissolved solids tester. This is based on the Dutch RHP method of analytical procedure. Chart 1-A illustrates the final analysis of two coco coir samples that are well suited to growing applications based on their salt content. Note that the test does not provide information as to the structure of the coir, just specific ions as impurities. Both samples have significant levels of soluble Calcium, Magnesium, and Potassium, suggesting that they have been pre-treated to satisfy the CEC requirements of the soil.

An overall value of 150 ppm or less characterizes a very pure material, while values up to 500 ppm have likely been treated to condition the media. Values greater than 500 ppm should be suspect in containing excessive sodium levels. Sodium levels should be kept as low as possible. Levels at over 100 ppm would be considered excessive and over 250 ppm are considered toxic.

I have spoken with several growers who had tried coconut coir as a growing media several years back when it was first being introduced to the indoor gardening marketplace. They did not continue to use the media, and switched back to peat based soilless mixes. After working with some of the older coconut coir available I can see why. Firstly, the earlier coco coirs available contained extremely high levels of sodium. In one batch tested, the leechate was over 1000 ppm! Keep in mind, that’s with just fresh water being run through the containers. Also the fiber quality was very poor. The coco was lighter in colour, suggesting immature fibers. The result was a powdery growing media that had poor structure for root growth and aeration. Coupled with high sodium levels, the crop was limited from the day it was planted. The coconut coir available to indoor gardeners in North America today is usually leaps and bounds ahead of the coir that was available just a few years ago.

Coconut coir that is optimal for plant growth also tends to be near neutral in pH (7.0). This helps ensure proper ionic balances in nutrient solutions, as fewer additions of pH adjusters are typically required to compensate for the pH of the growing media (i.e. rockwool has a very high pH).

Coconut coir as a growing media can be purchased in either loose or dried and compressed forms. The loose forms are already hydrated and are usually ready to be added to containers or raised beds for planting. The compressed forms require hydrating. Although the hydration process may be laborious, the dried and compressed blocks are much easier to transport to and inside of the growing location. The blocks are ideal for remote outdoor gardens. In compressed form, the blocks typically take up about 1/5th of the space as commercial peat mixes, and are much lighter in weight. For example a 5KG block of compressed coco coir measures about 10” X 10” X 4” and when expanded yields near 72 liters of high quality growing media. That’s enough to fill nine 2 gallon pots; one block per 1000W HID lamp.

Some coirs have been chemically treated, this is most often the case with loose pre-hydrated varieties versus compressed blocks. The treatment has been done to satisfy the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the growing media. As a refresher, “cations” are positively charged ions, such as Calcium, Magnesium, Sodium, and Potassium. This means that the growing media will hold these ions in a matrix, releasing them as required by plants. There is one slight drawback to this. Until the cation exchange capacity of the growing media is filled, the growing media may hold positively charged nutrient ions, most notably calcium, in reserve, making them less available to plants. However, the cation exchange capacity (CEC) of the coir media is quickly filled, and actually assists calcium absorption in the crop cycle. To ensure optimum availability of all nutrients, supply additional calcium during the first week of growth or during the hydrating process of the coconut coir. Calcium supplement products are ideal for this. Some nutrients specifically formulated for coco tend to have elevated levels of calcium and magnesium while having lower levels of nitrogen.

Coir is the ideal growing media for organic and hydro-organic applications. The air volume retained harbours greater populations of beneficial (oxygen loving) soil organisms than peat mixes. Increased population levels of soil micro-organisms play a strong role in high yielding organic gardens.

One of the most impressive attributes of coconut coir as a growing medium is the level of aeration and structure supplied to the rootzone. A coarse, good quality coir is difficult to over water. Basically, if you supply too much moisture it will just run out the bottom of the container, and will not become water logged (anaerobic) like peat based mixes may. The coconut fibers are much tougher and coarser than those of peat. This means more airspace is available for drainage and to supply the roots and soil life with higher levels of atmospheric oxygen (O2). Coir fiber will not compact over the course of the crop as with peat. With peat, we all remember filling the pot right to the top at the start of the crop, only to find that a third of the media is “gone” by harvest. What is happening is that the peat fibers are eroding from the force of watering, saline conditions, and the roots compacting the media. This robs the crop of valuable air space in the rootzone, and increases salt build-up as drainage is impeded. With coir fiber there is little if any compaction of the growing media over the cropping cycle due to the higher content of lignins and cellulose found in the physically coarser fibers. In container grown crops, little compaction is evident. Plants receive optimal water to air ratios over the course of the entire crop, not just the first few weeks.

Coconut coir is the ideal choice for raised bed production for several reasons. Firstly, many raised beds have been constructed without drainage. Moisture and nutrient management become much more temperamental in this type of growing situation. If you over water, there is much less of a chance of drowning roots. The coir fiber will retain airspace throughout the growing media, and the excess moisture will pool at the bottom, where it may wick up through the growing media, as coir tends to have excellent capillary movement for moisture and nutrients. To see just how resilient the air space is in coir, pick up a handful after thoroughly soaking and squeeze the material. When you open your hand, you may be surprised to find the media springing back like a sponge. Try this with peat, and you will not see any memory for macro pore space. Also, the coir fiber is resistant to breaking down under saline conditions, such as those found in non-draining raised beds, particularly those that are re-used over several crops. If the growing media is to be re-used the coir fiber will resist breaking down from mechanical handling (i.e removing old roots, mixing in growing amendments), while peat tends to become not much more than dust after several cropping cycles. In Holland, coir has been used to grow long term crops such as roses for periods longer than 10 years! The cation exchange capacity of the coir fiber also helps to reduce the incidence of salt burn, as it offers some buffering against positively charged ions such as sodium. When re-using any growing media, impurities such as sodium tend to accumulate over time. Organic based nutrients allow for a longer periods of use over multiple crops, as they tend to have less salts as impurities.

Unlike peat, coir may be used in re-circulating applications. In re-circulating drip systems it is recommended that the fiber be mixed 50/50 with either coarse perlite, pumice or grow rocks for faster drainage. Coir is also very suitable for flood and drain applications. There are coir products now available in the hydroponic marketplace that are excellent substitutes growing mediums. One such product is a small, plastic wrapped square of compressed coco coir. Once hydrated it expands into a 6” X 6” X 6” growing cube. Moisture management may differ from other media. Another benefit is that coco tends to have a near neutral pH value, so lesser quantities of pH adjusters are required in the nutrient solution. Excessive additions of pH adjusters may create an ionic imbalance in the nutrient solution, locking out or precipitating some nutrients.

One of the greatest benefits to using coco products is that disposal is easy and environmentally sound. The coir makes an excellent and natural looking top dressing to outdoor flower and vegetable gardens.


Chart 1-A
( Done with 1: 1.5 V/V Extract According to RHP method)
SAMPLE 1 SAMPLE 2

mmol/l PPM mmol/l PPM

1 E.C in ms 0.45 450.00 0.50 500.00
2 pH 6.30 6.30 6.5 6.50
3 Sodium (Ex-Ws) 1.50 34.50 1.6 36.80
4 Potassium (Ex-Ws) 2.50 97.75 2.3 89.90
5 Sodium (Water Extract) 1.60 36.80 1.8 41.40
6 Potassium (Water Extract) 1.40 54.70 1.6 62.50
7 Chlorides 2.40 84.50 1.9 67.30
8 Calcium 2.70 108.00 2.2 88.00
9 Magnesium 1.10 26.70 1.2 29.20

http://www.maximumyield.com/article269.htm

[SFC]

I am sorry to hear you let the spooks scare you. Coco is much easier,and forgiving than you have been led to believe. Fact: You do NOT have to water coco everyday. Tiberon,and myself have prove this. It is just more effective when watered daily (my own findings, along with many others)

Coco by itself is basicly gnat free (along with other pests that love soil) Mix soil in,and you have created a perfect ecosystem for them.
By adding the soil you have changed the PH buffering dyamics I am not sure how much it will effect things.
The whole point of using coco is to grow better, and heavier plants. You might as well have just grew in soil, that is in effect what you have now. You can no longer give the plants nutrients daily, now you must wait until they are dry. Also your boy at Mandela's should do his homework. Thats is a perfect example what happens when you start believing your own bullshit.

Either way I guess you will still likely have good plants,and I look forward to seeing your results. I wonder how your coco club is going to take the news that you aren't really going with it.:lmao:

[MedMan]

This PDF is Information on the production and processing of Coco-Coir & Peat.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Like I said, i just cant' seem to leave the soil right now.. not totally anyways. My plants are just doing too good in soil to completely change mediums on them.
The "spooks" as you call them didn't change my mind so much as my own studying into soil and what was "missing" from my soil program.

In my studying of the coco I found that a lot of people use it in their soil mixes, because as you said the coco has pH buffering abilities, and also high cation exchange properties.Also the Humus that was added acts as a natural pH buffer in the soil. And with dolomite lime added I doubt that pH will be a problem anymore.SO if you are implying that mixing it in my soil is going to worsen it then please explain why.

I have been growing in soil since I started, and even now I just can't abandon it because I know that now I am finally as you guys say "getting it".

I simply can't ignore the benefits of coco, but I can't ignore the downsides to it as well. And yes there are downsides to coco. But a larger gorilla in the room is the size and make up of my space doesn't mesh well with the amount of runoff needed to grow properly in coco. Right now I am so confined by just the amount of space i use some things just don't mesh with my setup.

Also due to the fact that in coco plants should be constantly watered/fed every watering it's just costing me out the ass already in fert's and just time i spend in the grow room everyday.I know you guys say different . I can, and do leave my plants for 2-3 days at a time without checking them or watering them. My mandala plants are dong so well in soil right now with little fertilizing and care and it's just hard to make a full switch.

I do have 1 plant in the coco but it's on it's last legs and probably be getting the chop.
I have mixed a new soil mix of my own now. No more commercial soils for me. Mainly the problem in my last grow was due to the fact that my soil was 90% peat based. During early development and veg the plants would do fine. Then when the plants began to get nutrient hungry the pH would begin to drift downwards and I would get defficiences no matter what I did, including flushing after flushing.

Also talking with some local grower's and a couple of old hippy organic farmers online and looking up post after post on coco based soils, I realized what my soil had been missing the whole time.One thing was to get away from a peat based soil. Now using coco does that, Infact the coco makes up about 40% of the mixture. Humus was the other missing link to the puzzle. What humus naturally does in the forest(buffers pH) helps the indoor soil gardener like myself.

So for one, I doubt that my mixture would still be considered coco growing. But it is coco based. One day I may go to full hydro with drip systems and all with coco, but it's not the right time now.For one I have an ego, and giving up on soil, when I just about got it right is definitely not the right way to go.

I am here to share info people...and i guess you can call me a soil "spook" if you want.
Considering that soil is what most things grow in in mother nature, I think that I'll fit in with the rest of them. Hopefully this go round with my "soil" will be alot better than the last few.:lite:

I hope you guys and gals love my long fucking post.

[SFC]

I didn't start the Coco growers club you did. And I did already point out to you the downside of mixing with soil, go back,and read. If soil is what you want to grow in that is fine, I started in soil myself. But when you make a big deal,ad start threads on two different forums only to bail out at the eleventh hour doesn't say much for your internal fortitude. But I guess if the price of "ferts" is liable to break you you will be better off. Coco requires no more space than soil. Your runoff only needs to be minimal, if your soaking your floor your giving to much anyway. Maybe DWC would be a better fit for your size room LOL, nah, nevermind that would require an even larger leap of faith. Good luck, and thanks for wasting everyone's time.:thumbsup:

[Captu4ik]

While I have nothing but respect for Mike at Mandala (he's answered all my questions, quickly and well), he is a soil grower. As he has no interest in 'soilless' growing, he's not an 'expert' on soilless. Neither am I, but as far as humus goes, I use Liquid Karma as a supplement when growing. It contains Humic acid, Fulvic acid, and most of the other things that humus supplies. But that's not my point.

My point is : It's taken you awhile to understand soil. More than one grow. Hydroponic (DWC) worked for me my very first grow. Allright, I didn't finish that grow because my plants grew so tall they outgrew my space, but that is definately a sign of healthy plants! My first soilless grow was excellent. I still haven't mastered growing in soil! DWC and soilless are much easier from several standpoints : Over-feed ? A quick flush with plain water will fix that. With soil, if your soil is too 'hot' (too much nutes) all you can do is watch your plants die from nute burn. Got a deficiency in soilless ? Next feeding up the strength of the nutes which are deficient. With soil ? Foliar feed to fix the deficency, and try to change the deficeincy in the soil, but you'll be foliar feeding everyday for a while ...

I could go on, but what I'm saying is this : IME,IMO soilless and DWC are much easier and much more productive -- Ed.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

I didn't start the Coco growers club you did. And I did already point out to you the downside of mixing with soil, go back,and read. If soil is what you want to grow in that is fine, I started in soil myself. But when you make a big deal,ad start threads on two different forums only to bail out at the eleventh hour doesn't say much for your internal fortitude. But I guess if the price of "ferts" is liable to break you you will be better off. Coco requires no more space than soil. Your runoff only needs to be minimal, if your soaking your floor your giving to much anyway. Maybe DWC would be a better fit for your size room LOL, nah, nevermind that would require an even larger leap of faith. Good luck, and thanks for wasting everyone's time.:thumbsup:


fuck you sfc.. and how about doing everyone a favor and go and jump off a bridge man.... come on.. i didn't waste anyone's time.. As far as information on coco this site has NONE! cept for the minor comments that a couple growers have made on here.. if you don't like my posts then please don't fucking comment..

And if I wasted anyone's time(but my own) here posting information that was needed on this site then so fucking be it. Yes I backed out but again not fully, I will still be using the coco in my grow, and eventually will switch fully.. but right now I am broke, i have little space, and I almost have gotten this soil thing.Matter of fact since it was just a waste of time why don't one of you motha fucka's go back and edit everything i put on here.. nobody needs that info on here... nah........nobody could use it... :eek:

As far as my internal fortitude goes lol, that's funny man.... you know that much about me SFC to talk about me like that huh? Please man, save me the bullshit.....
Anyone that knows me knows that I tend to change my mind alot on things. Not that i am a worse person for it, that's just me man.


Again I just want to thank captu4ik for his patience with me on the coco and answering my questions on it. The information will come handy in the near future. Thanks again man, you're a nice guy and hella knowledgable.Please forgive my above rant... I a bad person with no "internal fortitude" as some suggest on here and all of my posts are meaningless and useless..

[SFC]

You should keep that in your signature it fits perfect:thumbsup:

By the sounds of things maybe your the one who should take the plunge of the nearest bridge.;)

[Mr.Wakenbake]

lol..okay sure....:thumbsup:

[Tiberon]

hahahhahaha...arararrrrrar....okay funnies aside.

Im a coco grower. I switched from soil to coco after seeing SFCs results. I went straight in a few pots just to see what happened.
I go up to 3 days with out watering. But when I do....I make sure there is plenty of runoff. And when I water again....its obvious by the weight of the pot....theres still moisture in there.

No matter what you do....straight or mixed....water everyday or not....its all still coco. We are all in the same club.

The stuff retains moisture but at the same time provides plenty of oxygen too.....great medium!

[Mr.Wakenbake]

This mix that I made with the coco, humus and perlite has just been amazing.
The plants are putting on a node a day for sure and new growth is beginning to explode since the fimming on the plants.

I am going to be incorporating some DMSO into the mix when I fertilize as I have been doing dome interesting reading on it and it's uses.Anyways, I will post pics tomorrow as they are getting a shot of nutrients and water tomorrow.

The mix holds water for about 3-1/2 days so I Feed every Friday and water on Tuesday whenever I think about it. By Friday the soil is dry again and a shot of nutrients will be given again...

The plants just look extremely healthy in this mix and I am so glad I decided to use it. Anyways, I will post pics tomorrow of the mandala plants in my grow thread.....:thumbsup:

[trillions of atoms]

hey ppls......chill. :animbong:



:toa:

[herbgrower]

The references to humus have got me puzzled,unless ya's have got worm farms or have access to manure,i cant see how ya get it out of a bottle.:stumped:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus

[Mr.Wakenbake]

you can buy liquid humic and fulvic acid in a bottle... different companies offer varying strengths... but its' out there... mostly people who use soil less mediums like it.I mixed real forest humus into my coco coir for a nice soil mix, that hasn't let me down yet...but yes it can be found easily.
:thumbsup:

[Mr.Wakenbake]

I just thought that I would give you folks some shots of the plants that are being grown out right now in the coco mix.

Nothing out there that i can buy locally can even compare to the rusults that I have gotten already this go around. The plants are happy, I have had absolutely no pH problems this time through using organic nutrients.

The plants are happy, I am happy, and the harvest is just a short 8 weeks away. The plants are budding now everywhere and the clock is tickin.

IF anyone slams coco then it's because they didn't use it or refuse to change .... peat based mediums will soon become a thing of the past due to extreme over production and mining of peat bogs.

If you are planning on doing a soil grow this go around i urge you to try coco for one grow... there is almost no way to mess it up... and it's easy.

anyways here are the plants so far and i will post shots of buds later on in their lives....

Thanks for all the help with the coco folks.. and i hope you've enjoyed the thread so far.

Ill post pics tonight of them

[Don de Marco]

you can buy liquid humic and fulvic acid in a bottle... different companies offer varying strengths... but its' out there... mostly people who use soil less mediums like it.I mixed real forest humus into my coco coir for a nice soil mix, that hasn't let me down yet...but yes it can be found easily.
:thumbsup:
:eek: forest humus, you did sterilize it first, did you?
Funny I found this, I was just about to make my own soilless mix with organic amendments (microorganisms, hoof meal for the N...). The reason for doing this? I have gradually lowered the soil in my mix and it's now almost a tie between soil and coco. I have two cuttings of same age and strain. I have just enough soilmix left to serve one cutting with it, the other will be in a new freshly made soilless mix, since I have all but soil, :lol:

[Mr.Wakenbake]

:eek: forest humus, you did sterilize it first, did you?
Funny I found this, I was just about to make my own soilless mix with organic amendments (microorganisms, hoof meal for the N...). The reason for doing this? I have gradually lowered the soil in my mix and it's now almost a tie between soil and coco. I have two cuttings of same age and strain. I have just enough soilmix left to serve one cutting with it, the other will be in a new freshly made soilless mix, since I have all but soil, :lol:

No man, it's a bagged Organic Humus from Home Depot.. no need to sterilize... I don't use humus straight from the backyard.....

Anyways it's a pretty much 50/50 coco/soil mixture.

[Don de Marco]

^^^it's because you wrote real forest humus. That implied (to me) you went out in the woods to get some.:rasta2:

[Don de Marco]

OK, first coco question. I expanded one brick and stuck my ph meter in the sludge, reading: 5,96. The water I used has about 7,4. So the coco should be in the perfect range. Worrying about to much salt I stuck my finger in and tasted the liquid (generally the palmtrees are not treatened with poisons) - salty!
The blurp on the pack does say ph: 4,5 -5, salts < 1g / L, small amounts of N, P, K - what a surprise.

Sugestions?

[Don de Marco]

I decided to wash it thoroughly, although I felt quite stupid washing sludge, haha. Now all is in range. With the last round I added Mg and fertilizer that should be suitable in 1/4 strenght. Then I strained it out and added expanded clay, vermiculite, sand with vintage reptile guano and in lack of perlite, Seramis.

[SFC]

DDM, If you can try to find the Profit Disc brand Coco. It is really chunky. It is much easier to work with IMO.

[Don de Marco]

My mix looks currently like this ;)

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Depending on the type of Coco you bought you probabaly will have to flush it pretty good. Normally the compressed bricks are full of salt and you have to flush it out and flush it good. I bought the Sunleaves brand Classic Coco Block
that made about 30 gal of media once fully expanded and washed.

I expanded it in a rubbermaid, then filled a few 4 gal containers and flushed them one by one... it took a while but it's a must with compressed bricks, unless you use say the botanicare brand or canna brand...

Sunleaves has a ready to use 40L bag that is supposedly ready to go, but I would stil flush it.:thumbsup:

You can amend coco like soil with dolomite lime and bring that pH right on up to the proper level like up around 6.5-6.7..

Sunleaves also offers a really chunky coco ...but i haven't tried it yet

[Don de Marco]

There is another interesting thread there. I'm popo. :lol:
http://www.thecannacabana.com/forums/showthread.php?p=29073#post29073
Oh, I'm not located in the english speaking world, so I do not know most of the brands.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

:bump: I thought this needed a bump... After growing in a nice coco/soil mixture now, i won't ever go back to plain soil. There is nothing like getting the proper soil mixture and everything be gravy throughout the grow.


if anyone needs me I am always here to answer questions on coco, as is sfc, and quite a few other coco growers... :thumbsup:

[*TheKingsOf420*]

Nice... :thumbsup: I never saw this thread.... We use Pro-mix 70% Canna Coco 30%.... The only real problem we have seen has been a little bit of a mg def... But were gonna try Botanicare cal-mag and see what happens....... We use PBP and Liquid karma......


Peace <<KING>>

[Don de Marco]

Space Queen F2 from subcool, finishing week 8. Grown completely in coco with sand, expanded clay and vermiculite. :pics: :icon_smil