Should we be paying.....

[midnitefarmer]

our neighbors mortgages?I think obamanomics is starting to hit home for some people....

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1039849853

even some high schoolers can see this a disaster in the works.....

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/135656

[greenthumbdanny]

I'm figuring ya don't like the head n*** in charge eh :lmao:

[greenthumbdanny]

sorry Use that word slips every so often subconsciously

[LordOfTheWeeds]

sigh.

[greenthumbdanny]

Ya know MF.. Ever since watchin that I sure have been thinking a lot lol.:thumbsup: :animbong:

[LordOfTheWeeds]

i pay mortgages on two houses i own... started that house flipping thing a little ways back... then i got fired from my job a couple months ago and i found a way to get through hard times.. if i have to pay anyones fucking mortgage payments cause they cant keep up then fuck that shit.. i wonder why the fuck am i still paying my shit?? if i didnt love my country as much as i do i'd do what everyone else is doing and stop payments and help pull this country down a bit more.. i didnt even go collect unemployment cause i dont like the fact of taking handouts, ill always find a way through things or ill try my best... everyone wants something for free... get up off your fucking ass and work for it like the 45% of americans who still do (so it seems now)

[Mr.Wakenbake]

There ARE people who need and deserve this help. However, like all things started with good intentions, people will abuse it. I was duped into buying a mobile home. They said, hey long as it's on a slab it's real estate. It will always appreciate in value.

I owed 700$ a month in a rising payment due to rising insurance costs for the area i lived in, not because of an ARM. I got an appraisal two years ago and my home that i had payed $75K for land included, just got valued at $33K.

Foreclosures left and right in the neighborhood, and bammo plummeting home prices in the area, due to high inventory of unsold homes. So I was upside down in the whole deal, so I made a decision. I couldn't afford the payments, and I couldn't stay in the home. So it's up for sale. My last resort before foreclosure.

I am not wanting a handout. I just want an extension to the amount of time it takes for the mortgage company to foreclose, and auction the home. This way i can sell the home and save my credit.

I don't see ANY problem with the government stepping in and helping those who want to remain in their homes with some type of LOAN Modification. Make ARM's illegal, help families that are trying to catch up but can't and believe me the mortgage companies don't really care if you catch it up or not. They get their money either way from the FHA, and in my case the rest of the 80% the FHA doesn't pay, mortgage insurance will. On top of that the bank then gets to turn around and sell your house to cover lawyer fees.

Also, when you get x amount of time behind in your mortgage the bank won't even deal with you anymore. You must talk to their attorney. Also, lets say your payment is $1k a month. And you get behind for 2 months because of a lost job. You owe $2k, plus this months $1k. But you send in $1500 this month to help catch up the $2k you owe. Well guess what. That extra $500 dollars you should of just wiped your ass with and flushed it down the tube, because if you can't make atleast 2 full payments the next month, that $500 you sent in goes towards the next months payment. Hence you are still $2k in the hole. Hence still on the verge of foreclosure.

The governement doesn't need to subsidize loans, or give people money. That's not going to help the problem , or the economy and our falling dollar. We must go in and modify people's loans and make the companies work out repayment plans with homeowners who WANT to stay in their homes.

Those who don't want to stay in their homes should be given atleast 12-18 months to sell their home. I am not saying that they should be staying somewhere RENT FREE. I think they should atleast have to pay rent till they can sell it. If they can't do that, then give em 90 days to find a place to live and another 12 months to sell it.


Currently the time for you to move out after the police come is 0 days to 90 days depending on the state you live in. Some states send police and a moving crew and throw all your shit out on the lawn. Then lock you out. Imagine trying to deal with that kind of situation with a family, kids, dogs, ect.

Think before you speak. Sometimes, bad things happen to good people. People that lost their jobs due to layoffs. 600K people lost their jobs last month. I wonder how many of those people will end up in foreclosure? What about the 500k the month before? the 300k the month before that?

I don't claim to know everything about the economy or mortgages. However, i am currently dealing with this myself, with a prior home. I built a new one BTW. I just want to give the point of view from the side that would like atleast some common sense in this bill. That doesn't include $ for homeowners .

Sometimes people can't help the hand that they were dealt, and whole cities and towns are dying through rural areas especially. Without a well thought out approach that atleast will ease people's pain , our country could fall into a depression like non ever seen before.

I am not trying to scare anyone into supporting Obama. However, the man hasn't even finished his first 100 days and you already have ignorant people making ignorant comments about things they know little about.

[420Zone]

Very good post Mr. Wakenbake, and sorry for your troubled times. Go down any given block in my town and half of the houses on each side of the street are either boarded up and condemned or for sale from foreclosures. I have never seen anything like it. Let hope everyone affected gets out of this in one piece.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

ihavent read that all yet got food cookin, but yeah i mean to everyone who bought a 900,000$ house knowing they cant afford the payments, i dont mean it to the people who actually fell into hard times... foods burning

[LordOfTheWeeds]

i lost my job a couple months ago, plus i am working on my third house flip (own two houses, 2 mortgages) so i know how it is too trust me, i might not have worded what i said right before... i was talking MAINLY to those people who bought houses way out of their price range.

and im sorry that situation is happening to you, but you can get appraisal of the property before you buy a house, you can check online who owned it before how much they still owe on it property value of other houses in the area and get an inspection. so then that way you dont get screwed in a situation like that. cant trust anyone...

but yeah in a situation like that i can completely understand, but the home buyer is still at fault there if he ignored to do any of those things up there, but they need the help... not the people who did it on purpose is who i was talking about

[LordOfTheWeeds]

it just seems that 95% of the people in the situation abused it, and they will get rewarded for bad behavior like they said. i guess thats why i was just saying it like that i agree with helping people who need it not dumbasses who are trying to get a free ride, i work very hard to keep up with my payments, 2 of everything water, electricity, house payments, property tax, insurance. i just dont think its cool for people to take advantage of the situation like so many are. i work really hard to stay afloat, but like i said those who honestly do need help need it.

[chriscrete]

Its people like you Mr. Wakenbake that have made this problem what it is....your living beyond your means...and you got DUPED into buying something huh? .....ya right...you mean you really wanted it and got blinded by your need to keep up wit hthe joneses....now you want help right? You dont deserve it with how you overextended yourself......My bills are 50% of what I make per month.....If i want a luxury item (camper,2nd home) I save for it and buy it. NOW ITS MINE!!!! NOT THE BANKS!!!! I love that this is hammering people who need to get put in their place....Just look around everyone, think "Do I need that?" Its a sense of entitlement that greedy people have, that screwed up your own life or lifestyle. Simply said....if you make $50,000 a year then make sure your bills are around $35,000 to $40,000a year....WOW what a normal thought huh? That just makes way too much sense right? And dont forget what your parents would do for money....ANYTHING! When your on your face, you have no room for pride or bitching, just get your job done and shut the fuck up! Its amazing how people trust whoever with their kids at a daycare but they BELIEVE in credit???? IF YA CANT BUT IT OUTRIGHT THEN YOU DO NOT DESERVE IT

My take on 09 is that it will be ALOT of the same.....Until the dissrespectful, spoon fed kids get off their butts and help society then we will have the same current economic situation into the future, as we do now. Its our own fault that we're in this mess to begin with......people got greedy, giving their kids "things they never had growing up".....i mean just handing it to them....I was never givin anything, had to W-O-R-K for it.....all of it.....Now i have respect for myself and my things and take care of them.......Not kids or even young adults these days......they feel a right to be fly, a right to be cool, gotta have this and that to keep up right? gotta be cool......And parents want their kids to fit in and be cool too......there in-lies the issue at hand.........PEOPLE LIVING BEYOND THEIR MEANS.......Bratty kids are to blame, kinda.......its the weak parental skills that feeds into it tho......its an entitlement thing.....kids have zero respect for whats honest.....And who taught them that? THANKS MOM & DAD!!

For the people who are dying out there.....learn a new hustle and some respect for what you have done to YOURSELVES!

I owe my mortgage and house bills. Thats all. No credit cards, no luxury loans!

I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM----PART OF THE SOLUTION-----

If you reach too far what happenes? You fall........thats why its "too far!"

[midnitefarmer]

Ya know MF.. Ever since watchin that I sure have been thinking a lot lol.:thumbsup: :animbong:

Right on man!....Im glad....sounds like lots of people are starting to think.......:thumbsup:

[LordOfTheWeeds]

chris what the hell did wake do?

[chriscrete]

From reading his post, I gathered hes in some trouble with his choices in financial areas, he seems to overstepped his boundries within how much he can afford per month. Now he want some type of extention to pay his debt back. If it was not for certain choices of luxury items in life..... that are not needed......... then the man wouldnt need help. You have to be smart enough in society today to make sure your taking care of number one, not making sure number one has the coolest toys, just cause of ego.
Im a construction business owner who has learned the highs and lows of life and I truly feel the economy way before its reported on TV and dealt with. I have learned how to be responsible enogh for my entire crew of guys, to just make sure they have work to feed their families with. My guys are my life. As well as thier own lives to themselves. If I ever overextended my money or business, then I would be taking control of other lives, then, into my hands to a possible disaster. Such as what has happened to Mr. Wake.......and the country. I am successful because of my awarenes not to be stingy or greedy or to let my ego, large as it may be, get in the way of the success of my crew and thier families, which in turn makes me quite well off. Just sayin dont whine and cry when you did it to yourself, thats all!


Please believe me Wake or any other people here, Im not trying to be a douch or mean by any stretch. Im also irritated by lifes trip.

[Tap_Water]

Sorry, to say but I hope shit gets real bad. I also hope the news channels stay on through out it all so I can watch.HAHAHHAHA

Mother fuckers deserve what ever is gonna unfold I say!!!!! Tap

[greenthumbdanny]

Thats good stuff Mikey. I am in agreeance with the agreeances. :boss:

[BlowsTrees]

Well i gotta say...as much as Chriscrete can be a douche and rub people the wrong way...he does bring some very valid points to the table which I also share his opinion lol.

[SFC]

Regardless. This country is in tough shape right now. The American people got stupid over the last 20 years or so,and now we are going to pay the piper. I feel like the best way would be to reevaluate everyone's mortgages at a 20% discount of the original loan price. The banks are already being bailed out so there is really no excuse. This would help many people in that it would #1 lower their payment,and principal, #2 bring house prices down to at least reasonable market value.

Now for those of us that are still current, or have paid off our houses. These people should receive a tax credit to help balance things out. We cannot let this country turn into welfare land. SSI is already being abused to the point of breaking.

Also. At what point does the fed finally realize that we are devaluing our currency to the point of collapse, and finally raise interest rates. Credit score means nothing anymore. We handed out money like candy. Want a new car?,No money? no problem. Well guess what? Now they have lowered credit requirements for new vehicles again. Obviously not learning a thing.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

Its people like you Mr. Wakenbake that have made this problem what it is....your living beyond your means...and you got DUPED into buying something huh? .....ya right...you mean you really wanted it and got blinded by your need to keep up wit hthe joneses....now you want help right? You dont deserve it with how you overextended yourself......My bills are 50% of what I make per month.....If i want a luxury item (camper,2nd home) I save for it and buy it. NOW ITS MINE!!!! NOT THE BANKS!!!! I love that this is hammering people who need to get put in their place....Just look around everyone, think "Do I need that?" Its a sense of entitlement that greedy people have, that screwed up your own life or lifestyle. Simply said....if you make $50,000 a year then make sure your bills are around $35,000 to $40,000a year....WOW what a normal thought huh? That just makes way too much sense right? And dont forget what your parents would do for money....ANYTHING! When your on your face, you have no room for pride or bitching, just get your job done and shut the fuck up! Its amazing how people trust whoever with their kids at a daycare but they BELIEVE in credit???? IF YA CANT BUT IT OUTRIGHT THEN YOU DO NOT DESERVE IT

My take on 09 is that it will be ALOT of the same.....Until the dissrespectful, spoon fed kids get off their butts and help society then we will have the same current economic situation into the future, as we do now. Its our own fault that we're in this mess to begin with......people got greedy, giving their kids "things they never had growing up".....i mean just handing it to them....I was never givin anything, had to W-O-R-K for it.....all of it.....Now i have respect for myself and my things and take care of them.......Not kids or even young adults these days......they feel a right to be fly, a right to be cool, gotta have this and that to keep up right? gotta be cool......And parents want their kids to fit in and be cool too......there in-lies the issue at hand.........PEOPLE LIVING BEYOND THEIR MEANS.......Bratty kids are to blame, kinda.......its the weak parental skills that feeds into it tho......its an entitlement thing.....kids have zero respect for whats honest.....And who taught them that? THANKS MOM & DAD!!

For the people who are dying out there.....learn a new hustle and some respect for what you have done to YOURSELVES!

I owe my mortgage and house bills. Thats all. No credit cards, no luxury loans!

I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM----PART OF THE SOLUTION-----

If you reach too far what happenes? You fall........thats why its "too far!"


I don't think you read my whole post. I don't have luxury loans, i don't have credit cards.

I don't think you quit know me or who i am. I have been on my own since the age of 14. I have had a family and kids since 17. I have never asked anyone for anything.

I am sorry that my post rubbed you the wrong way.However, i was never disrespectful to you or anyone else here. I am just saying that there are people that need help. You are very lucky to be able to stay afloat, and so am I. I don't think you read the part where i said i just built a brand new home. A $250k home at that that is paid for in full. ;)

Don't fucking sit here on your high horse claiming that you know me. I grew up with no dad, and a paranoid schitzophrenic mother and never had ANYTHING but a little food and hand me down clothes. I gave my story to show that it's not just the people's fault. The way the mortgage companies work, once you get a month or two behind you can get in trouble quickly.

I was almost killed in a car accident a few years back and nearly lost EVERYTHING as i was laying in a hospital bed for 6 months and a wheelchair for 6 more. Wife was too busy wiping my ass and dumping my bedpan to get a job. Not to mention taking care of our children.

I am sorry for being pissy now, i tried to explain why people need some kind of help. I am not saying we should give em money. A little extra time to sell their homes isn't a lot to ask.

We got behind because of something out of our hands. Not to mention, that at the time gas was $4.50 a gal up from $1.75gal, food cost went from $400 a month to about $900 a month. It cost $100 to fill our tank a week on one vehicle, we had basic $14 a month cable and $20 a month internet(phone included). Our ONLY perks while i was suffering for nearly 2 years with NOTHING to do. Relearning how to walk . ect.ect.people here know my story that have been here for a long time. They remember me on here all fucking night fooling around because i couldn't sleep because of pain.


In conclusion, I have no problem with you CC and nobody else here. I agree with you totally that idiots that just jumped into something that they couldn't afford should not be helped other than maybe some extended time to sell the property. That's not alot to ask. I was not one of those people. We could afford it, then within a period of 6 months we couldn't anymore. We had no problems paying the bills the two years prior to the accident.Wtf was we supposed to do ? You ever been in that situation man?


In my case our housenote was on a fixed rate, but rose after hurricane katrina came through and wiped alot out in the area we lived. This happened 2 months before my almost life ending accident. House note jumped up on us due to insurance costs tripling and living near the coast. We went from being able to afford it all with money left over to being in the negative. WTF was we supposed to do?


After i got my money for the accident i built a home and bought some land. I am in the process of selling the home we did live in now. I am in no way saying we should help spoon fed idiots who don't deserve it. Please forgive my aggravation with your response, But you have no fucking clue about my life or situation. As I have no info on your life. I am glad that you haven't had to deal with the stuff that I have, or layoffs, illness, ect.ect.I in no way meant to offend you, but man, you can't see the forest for the trees bro.

To anyone else that didn't agree with me, that's fine. I don't really give a flying fuck if anyone agreed with me. I just told my story and my point of view. Forgive me please for the cussing, I am just aggravated at being called spoon fed, and spoiled. Dude if you ever go somewhere and try to buy anything on time without credit you will understand why you need it.

Credit affects your insurance rates on your car, can affect if you get a job or not somewhere as alot of employers check credit, Banks ect.ect. To say that you don't need credit tells me that you obviously have enough bank to pay $ for everything. Well bro, I hate to bust your bubble, but not everyone can do that.

Just asking, but have you ever had to go years without working? I went two years. Have you ever been laid up in a hospital bed ringing a fucking bell at 2 am for your wife to come dump your fucking cathetar bag of piss cause u got to pee? We DIDN'T FUCKING OVEREXTEND OURSELVES!

Please don't act like you know me or anyone else that is going through this. You ain't got a clue.

[SFC]

Obviously Mikey, he didn't know. That being said you both make excellent points,and both have truth. You are a lucky man to have MaryJane too.As well as your life. Be glad for that if nothing else.

[Mr.Wakenbake]

agreed sfc. I am just saying. This guy don't even know me man. Nor does he know everyone in america's personal situation. We all shouldn't be grouped together like we all deserve what we get.

It's not that i dont' agree with CC . I just don't think he should open his mouth about me personally. My story in no way implied i was in over my head. He just read it and changed it around to what he wanted it to mean. There are people who need help out there, that deserve help.

CC obviously isn't one of those people.

The only thing i was duped on was being made to think that a mobile home was real estate. They called it a modular home. Otherwise everything else was on the up and up. Payments were affordable $550 a month including home insurance. Katrina hit home insurance tripled, and guess what since it's all lumped in in escrow our payment went up with it. to $700 a month. Out of our hands.

Car accident, out of our hands. Gas prices, food prices. Out of our hands. Not everyone faired wonderfully through all this , and there are going to be more and more people with these same types of situations in the future.

The reason why i would just ask for more time to sell the home is because when you are selling it you can stage it. Cut the grass yada yada. When they forclose and lock it down. It runs down, grows up and people break into it and squatters even show up. If people would be given more time to sell, instead of a bunch of seemingly run down homes in the neighborhood, you got a bunch of decent looking homes that's set up to sell. Not boarded up and run down.


Nobody can sit here and say they have the solution. I am just saying something needs to be done to atleast make selling the home you can no longer afford easier to do. Right now, once you get forclosed on ... that's it ,your screwed.

[midnitefarmer]

More obamanomics on the horizon......more pain.....bring on the pain.....raise taxes in the middle of the worst economic crisis since the great depression......but dont worry youll be gettin youre 13.50 a week in tax cuts starting in april......if ya still got a job.....:wtf: :rip: :5shots:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/21/AR2009022100911_pf.html

[Mr.Wakenbake]

If you make 250k a year you can afford 4 more %.

This is exactly what he talked about during his campaign. However. I am with you on this one. In this economy we should be allowing people to keep more of their money, thus increase consumer spending.

With all the loopholes in our swiss cheese tax structure i am sure people's accountants can come up with some reciepts for some thing they can write off but haven't been.

Honestly, I pay very little in fed taxes . I wish they would cut how much i have to pay in social security taxes, and medicare, and wtf ever FICA is.

State taxes are supremely low where i live so i can't complain there.

Honestly tax cuts should start at the state level. How about removing taxes on food first and foremost. Remove taxes on items bought for infants, or maybe lower the cost of COBRA insurance.


Honestly, most american's will bitch to their congressman/congresswomen about any such raise in taxes.

[midnitefarmer]

mikey,,,if you believe that 250 number...im afraid youve been duped again my friend.....the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts effected incomes down to 50k and he is gonna let those tax cuts expire.......with all that said,what makes you so sure that a couple making 250 a year could afford the 4%...they could easily be in the same boat as you....;)

[Mr.Wakenbake]

4 % of 250k is 1k dollars man. Come on man. If you make 250k a year you have no reason to be in my situation.

However i don't agree with his plans man on taxes. It's not why i voted for him. I voted for him because i need medical marijuana. Not because I was duped. I fully understood what he intended to do while in office. I am okay with most of it. However i am not in agreement with raising taxes for sure.

If he raises my taxes i will raise my number of dependants to the max and not pay shit. However i just won't get shit back at the end of the year.

I honestly now get back 4k to 5 k a year when i don't even come close to paying in that much. With all the credits, and breaks i get I could care less what he does. I will just raise the number of dependants i claim during the year and file the normal amount at tax time. Less money from me to them, less to no money back at the end of the year, but i still come out smelling like roses.

I mean honestly why do most people get back more money than they paid into the government anyways? I think our whole tax system needs to be looked at . The FAIR TAX is the best way imho to help our country. Eliminate the IRS and impose a standardized flat federal sales tax on everything we buy except food. Bammo.... more money then our country would know what to deal with

BTW. the married filing jointly standard deduction was again lowered to 11k from 13k this year. Nothing to do with Obama... everything to do with Bush and this current congress in place not making it permanant.It's all a game and the republicans play it just the same.

The same idiots who are talking shit about the stimulus package turn right around and put millions and millions in it in pork. Then on top of that, they say they of course wouldn't turn down the money, which by the way... they have a choice to do so. So if you don't agree with this bill or Obama that's fine. Just don't lay all the blame on him. There isn't a Republican in this country who won't accept the funding . I would be willing to bet everything i had on that.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

wake - you voted for obama just cause meds? its not hard to get it either way dude... why vote for some piece of shit who wont even pledge to the flag, whos wife is finally proud of america for once, stupid fucking racist priest fucktwat who talks a lot of shit. obama is a fucking puppet to a higher power that has been working real hard to get someone in there for a really long time is what i believe and give it a few years maybe and i think we will see some bad shit happen. really bad

just watch this whole video, especially about one and a half mins into it how everyone else stands opposed to how he does hmmm.... why? why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFcYoJ6RLsw

fuck that stupid piece of shit i love my country

[SFC]

I understand where your coming from LOTW, but after the last 8 years I am willing to gamble on Obama too. If he screws up he will be done less than 4 years. This is a good time for the repulitards to get their heads out of their asses ,and get back to being fiscal conservatives,and stay out of social politics. That is where they fucked up. They were conservative socially,and spent like drunken sailors fiscally. We are on the edge as a nation.

[midnitefarmer]

4% of 250k is 10,000 dollars mikey,,,,,you think peeps who make over 250k dont run up on hard times with wrecks and bad deals and what not man?......maybe if you werent getting back that 4 or 5 k that you didnt pay the ones who make 250k wouldnt be getting a tax increase........
who are the idiots your talking about?
Not one republican in the house voted for this,,,and only three in the senate voted for it...

Welcome back Carter!!!

[Mr.Wakenbake]

so i mad a math error. 10k is alot of $ and yah i understand that people who make that kind of $ can run on hard times.Yeah medical marijuana is the main reason I voted for Obama. You actually think we would of gottn a fucking shot with Mc Cain in there?

TO be honest my candidate was Ron Paul. Until the media made him look like he was nutso and he had to drop out do to low poll numbers.

I also believe that gays should be able to be married, if there is a pastor willing to marry them they should be allowed. I believe in a single payer health insurance which btw isn't socialized medicine. I believe that I am atleast going to let the man finish his first 100 days before i start bashing him like you people are doing.

I understand no Rep voted for it dood. I am talking about these same senators who voted no on it, turned right around and put millions into it, just to vote no to look good as thy know their vote isn't needed anyways.

A ton of em were asked along with the Governers of the states, if they would accept the money and ALL OF THEM said OF COURSE! SO please spare me ....

[midnitefarmer]

No rebublicans(other than the 3 traitors in the senate) had input into what was in the final bill mikey....it an all democrat piece of legislation handed to obama by harry reid and nancy pelosi....http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=30667


as far as the repub governors...i think a few may not take all of the money because after 3 years the fed money goes away for all this shit and then it becomes a burden on the states thru still even higher taxes....hopefully at least one will have the balls to stand up and say no!....

When did the first 100 days of a presidency become sacred?...screw that notion...nobody gave george bush a pass in his firt 100 and obama shouldnt get a pass either....




WASHINGTON — To take federal stimulus money for your state or not to take it.

That is the big question for Democratic and Republican governors in town for the National Governor's Association meeting this weekend.

Democrats labeled Republican governors who turn down money from the federal stimulus package as "fringe" Republicans eager to score political points. The head of the Republican governors says the Democrats are out of touch.

Governors at the conference played down a split in Republican ranks over the stimulus plan, which will send billions to states for education, health care and transportation. Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a likely 2012 presidential contender, has said he would reject a portion of the money aimed at expanding state unemployment insurance.

Gov. Haley Barbour, R-Miss., said he was considering a similar move. Taking the unemployment dollars, he said, would force his state to eventually raise taxes when the stimulus money runs out, putting in place what he called an unfair tax on employers.

"There is some (money) we will not take in Mississippi. ... We want more jobs. You don't get more jobs by putting an extra tax on creating jobs," Barbour told CNN's "State of the Union' on Sunday.

Michigan's Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm said there are other states that want and need the new money: "We'll take it. We'll take your money."

Gov. Mark Sanford, R-S.C., also has criticized the plan, as has Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, the party's 2008 vice presidential nominee, who traveled to Washington last month to press for her state's share of the money. Palin, busy with her state's legislative session, did not attend the NGA meeting.

Florida GOP Gov. Charlie Crist, also a potential 2012 contender and strong supporter of the stimulus plan, said the criticism leveled by other Republicans wasn't rooted in politics.

"I don't know that it's a partisan issue. It's different people, different CEOs – governors – who have a different perspective on how it would impact their states," Crist said in an interview. "I know it has a positive impact on Florida. A lot of that money has been paid to the federal treasury by my fellow Floridians and they deserve to get it back."

At issue for Jindal and Barbour is a provision in the stimulus bill that could allow people ineligible for unemployment benefits to receive them anyway. That could eventually force a tax increase on employers, both governors have said.

Some Democrats took a harder line at a press conference arranged by the Democratic Governors Association to praise Obama for his leadership on the stimulus. DGA Chairman Brian Schweitzer of Montana and Maryland Gov. Martin O'Malley dismissed GOP detractors as "fringe" Republicans eager to score political points.

"All of us are committed to working with President Obama to pull our nation's economy out of the ditch that George W. Bush ran it into," O'Malley said. "If some of the fringe governors don't want to do that, they need to step aside and not stand in the way of the nation's interests."

The line drew a rebuke from Sanford, the Republican Governors Association chairman.

"I think in this instance I would humbly suggest that the real fringe are those that are supporting the stimulus," Sanford said. "It is not at all in keeping with the principles that made this country great, not at all in keeping with economic reality, not in keeping with a stable dollar and not in keeping with the sentiments of most of this country."

[LordOfTheWeeds]

i wouldnt have voted for him just cause meds wake, he does have 25k more things to worry about right now and yeah theres more of a chance of him doing it than mccain but seriously... he wont even pledge to the american flag thats bullshit bro... really bullshit, tell me why is it so hard to cross your chest? thats just straight disrespectful to every single country loving american. hes friends with bill ayres the radical, and a lot of other people who are no good. a lot of other people.... this country is not a safe place anymore with him in office, we are in for a very big suprise in the coming years.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

at least Mccain is very respectful to the american flag and every american citizen.

obama is a piece of shit, a disrespectful fuck. i hope he gets lung cancer and dies

[SFC]

C'mon LOTW. You really do not wish someone to get lung cancer and die. Like it or not he is the President of the United States of America. We should still show respect, and at least give the guy a chance to try and straighten this mess out. I don't like any of this stimulus bill myself, but I do agree though that we should be proactive at trying to get this economy back on track. One thing for certain though is it is not going to be quick , or painless.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

sfc youll really give respect to some fucking asshole who wont pledge to the american flag? are you serious? by him doing that you should be offended as should anyone else who cares about this country. that right there is extremely disrespectful and ungrateful.

just give me a good reason why anyone should pay someone who doesnt give respect to the american flag any kind of respect?

disgraceful behavior

[SFC]

I don't know all of the details behind the incident you speak of, but I would imagine it was not intentional. I will also say, the day the DEA kicks my door in I will never salute the flag again myself. I will even go one step further, if I had the money I would move to the Caribbean tomorrow,and not look back. I love my country, but I love what it should be more than what it is.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

it is intentional SFC go watch the video i put up... during the pledge of allegiance he does not hold his hand to his chest like every country loving citizen does instead he stands there hands clasped around his waist area... its very pathetic people voted a duchebag like that into office. shows no love for this country..

and why would you not pledge because you got busted? thats no reason to hate this country because youre doing something illegal, told someone who told someone who told the cops... for the most part anyone who gets busted is cause they are dumb and told to many people... a select few get popped for reasons not done on by them.. if i got busted id still love this country... id just learn from my mistakes

[SFC]

That is your right as an American. For now anyway. Just like it is your choice whether or not you put your hand on your heart , or take your hat off during the star spangled banner. Of all things I could find to not like about Obama, the pledge deal is not even on the Radar. And really if you really are serious about convincing people how bad he is , I would use more than that argument.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

that was only part of the arguement SFC, i also said how he is connected with bill ayres the extreme radical... his stupid pastor wright who is a racist fucking asshole he is connected to so many bad people its not even cool, i could go on and on how much of an idiot obama is

and yeah its someones right what they want to do and such but seriously the fucking president of the united states doesnt hold his hand to his heart for the pledge to the flag? you think thats ok? hes the fucking president! thats fucking stupid bro

[SFC]

He was not the president when that photo was taken. Correct? I bet every single time the pledge has been said in his presence since then he has done it right? Correct?

I am not going to get into an argument about Ayres, or Wright. I really do not know how big a part they have played in his life, or that they have any part of it now. I personally think the Rev tried to sabotage his campaign, but again I am not part of his inner circle , so I have no clue.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

actually no i dont believe he puts his hand to his heart even still, regardless if that was before his presidency or not the stupid prick should still respect the country he supposedly loves watch the video how the person behind the camera pans to everyone else and him just to show how hes the only disrespectful piece of crap there

i believe this was a great country... still is... but its people like him who are ruining it. just like how the stupid athiest parents tried to stop the pledge at schools saying they didnt want their son or daughter to recite it... bullshit man pure bullshit

take pride in this country and try to make it a better place i take pride and i will try to make it better than it is somehow... gotta get the stupid fucks who think like those people out of here... they all need to go somewhere else if they dont fucking like how it is here

[Edward Scissorhash]

actually no i dont believe he puts his hand to his heart even still, regardless if that was before his presidency or not the stupid prick should still respect the country he supposedly loves

Exactly. Idk why the fact he wasn't president yet would make a difference lol. He should show respect for the country/flag that not only elected him, but afforded him the opportunity to be elected in the first place.

[MoneyTree]

When times get rough you've gotta do watch ya gotta do, as long as your moral's approve. Screw Credit, screw the Govt. - MT : peacesig
:gasthower: :read:

[midnitefarmer]

Wall street is not too thrilled with obamanomics.....





AP
Major stock market indexes fall to 1997 levels
Monday February 23, 3:06 pm ET
By Sara Lepro, AP Business Writer
Dow, S&P 500 fall to 1997 levels as sagging confidence pulls stocks sharply lower


NEW YORK (AP) -- The major market indexes have staggered to their lowest levels in a decade, pulled lower by investors rapidly waning confidence.
The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell to April 1997 levels Monday, while the Dow Jones industrial average, down about 215 points, reached its levels of October 1997 as investors succumbed to their growing worries about a recession that has no end in sight.

"People left and right are throwing in the towel," said Keith Springer, president of Capital Financial Advisory Services.

Most financial stocks were pounded even as government agencies led by the Treasury Department said they will launch a revamped bank rescue program that includes the option of increasing government ownership in financial institutions without having to pour more taxpayer money into them.

Although the government has said it doesn't want to nationalize banks, many investors are clearly still concerned that this could be a possibility as banks continue to suffer severe losses because of the recession. They're also worried that banks' losses will keep escalating as the recession sends more borrowers into default.

"The biggest thing I see here is the incredible pessimism," Springer said. "The government is doing a lousy job of alleviating fears."

The Treasury and other agencies issued a statement after The Wall Street Journal reported that Citigroup is in talks for the government to boost its stake in the bank to as much as 40 percent. Analysts said the market, which initially rose on the statement, wanted more details of the government's plans.

"It's only a very partial picture of what we may get," said Quincy Krosby, chief investment strategist at The Hartford. "This proverbial lack of clarity is damaging market psychology."

Meanwhile, technology stocks are also falling after The Wall Street Journal reported that Yahoo Inc.'s new chief executive is planning a companywide reorganization. But the selling came across the market as pessimism about the recession and its toll on companies deepened.

"There's no where to hide anymore," said Jim Herrick, director of equity trading at Baird & Co.

The market's decline extends massive losses from last week when the major stock indexes tumbled more than 6 percent. The major indexes plunged through the lows they reached in late November, at the height of the credit crisis.

In the final hour of trading, the Dow dropped 215.76, or 2.93 percent, to 7,149.91, after earlier falling to its lowest level since Oct. 28, 1997.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 22.12, or 2.87 percent, to 747.93. Earlier, the S&P fell to its lowest level since April 1997.

The technology-laden Nasdaq composite index dropped 44.60, or 2.41 percent, to 1,406.46.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 13.08 or 3.18 percent, to 397.88.

Declining issues outnumbered advancers by about 5 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange, where volume came to a light 1.03 billion shares.

Among tech stocks, Hewlett-Packard Co. fell $1.56, or 5 percent, to $29.68, and Intel Corp. dove 67 cents, or 5.2 percent, to $12.11.

Other big decliners included General Electric Co., which dropped to a 14-year low of $8.80, but later traded down 48 cents, or 5.1 percent, at $8.90. Alcoa Inc. tumbled 43 cents, or 6.8 percent, to $5.86.

Some financial stocks managed to hold on to their earlier gains, including Citigroup, which rose 33 cents, or 16.7 percent, to $2.28, and Bank of America Corp., which gained 30 cents, or 7.9 percent, to $4.09.

Bond prices were mixed. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its price, fell to 2.78 percent from 2.79 percent late Friday. The yield on the three-month T-bill, considered one of the safest investments, rose to 0.28 percent from 0.26 percent Friday.

The dollar was mixed against other major currencies, while gold prices fell.

Light, sweet crude fell $1.90 to $38.13 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Overseas, Britain's FTSE 100 fell 0.99 percent, Germany's DAX index fell 1.95 percent, and France's CAC-40 slipped 0.82 percent. Earlier, Japan's Nikkei stock average fell 0.54 percent.

[SFC]

The market was fucked again today. I had been clawing way back out of the dumps for a good month there before knucklehead signed that stimulus package. :puke:


Someday there is going to be some good opportunities in market when this shit finally quits, but who the hell knows when that will be?

[midnitefarmer]

Heres an ad i saw today.....

http://www.420genetics.com/gallery/files/9/2/3/freemoney.jpg

[LordOfTheWeeds]

tfyguhkbij

[LordOfTheWeeds]

Someday there is going to be some good opportunities in market when this shit finally quits, but who the hell knows when that will be?

if anyone has any money left at the end of it:lmao: :lmao:

[Useless]

I burn the flag.
Does that make me less of an American? The constitution protects my rights to believe whatever I want. It also protects my right to burn the flag.
Simply not saluting a flag is no reflection of how the man performs his job.

On wall street not liking the bailout - Who the fuck cares what they think? You dont think its ironic the people who are bitching about how they get the money are the ones who are actually getting the money? Sorry, if I'm drowning and someone gets me a liferope, I dont care what strings are attached or how they get me the lifeline. Wall Street has no place to complain.

Hey MF - yu get that ad from the fascist news channel..err I mean fox news channel? HAHAHA.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

its not about the job useless, its about fucking respect you idiot

why are people so fucking goddamn stupid

and FYI thats the proper way of disposing of an american flag, its suppose to be burned. dur dur dur. but i guess your just cool? dumbass

[Edward Scissorhash]

Dudes come on don't bring it down to my level......:animbong:
AFWIW, both of you have valid points, just kinda seems now y'all are going to the extreme left/right to prove that point. Again JMO, carry on.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

i just dont think people should talk stupid shit like that... i doubt he was serious about burning the flag, but if he was hes just a dumbfuck. i have pride in my country and dont like when people disrespect it i wont talk hard on the internet theres no point but come burn a flag up in my neck of the woods and sure enough someday someone will find you out there... someday : pipe:

[Useless]

its not about the job useless, its about fucking respect you idiot

why are people so fucking goddamn stupid

and FYI thats the proper way of disposing of an american flag, its suppose to be burned. dur dur dur. but i guess your just cool? dumbass


Ahhh, so because I dont believe in praising a symbol, I am an idiot, stupid, trying to be cool and a dumbass?
Or is it because I'm saying who fucking cares if he raised his hand during one of a hundred thousand pledge of allegiance? Let me ask you, how many times in grade school did you make jokes during the POA? You remember them, I pledge allegiance to the flag, Michael Jackson is a fag, Pepsi Cola burnt him up, now hes drinking 7 up....I know I did probably everyday for a year. Now, if you had to go through that, say another 10,000 times in your life, you wouldnt space out on any of them, you are saying that any lapse of worthless protocal makes you less patriotic?



Thats what cracks me up about you fanatical repulicans. As soon as you cant debate your point with any factual basis, you resort to ad hominum attacks.

While I disagree with MF on almost all of his political views, at least he backs them with a logical (although extremely bias) arguement. I can at least appreciate that.
You can't manage more than a few petty, and quite frankly, weak slanderous statements. Thats why you guys are so easy to rip apart. Your party is full of people like you. :kiddo:

Ahh the ignorance and blind patriotism of sheople such as yourself is truly a blissful joy for an anarchist.

Now, if you'd care to try some logic to debate your point, I'd love to hear more of your dribble. Its people like you that provide me a neverending supply of ammunition. But dont feel bad, they come form both sides of the political arena. So dont feel lonely or as though I'm picking strictly on repub's, you have dem's just as ignorant as you.

:beatings:

Would you care to try and post something with logic and intelligence behind it? I'll wait for you to gather your thoughts, a dictionary, and a history book. Oh yea, you might want a philosophy book too. Then we might be able to continue a discussion.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

nah bro... i had a whole good story for you, i deleted it cause youre really not worth it, your pathetic, anarchists are so fucking cool bro :thumbsup: :thumbsup: say what you want about this that and the other and while your at that you can go fuck off also.. ill ignore what you got to say back to this thread and be the bigger person. so you have fun with your reply though dick

[greenthumbdanny]

nah bro... i had a whole good story for you, i deleted it cause youre really not worth it, your pathetic, anarchists are so fucking cool bro :thumbsup: :thumbsup: say what you want about this that and the other and while your at that you can go fuck off also.. ill ignore what you got to say back to this thread and be the bigger person. so you have fun with your reply though dick

Lord I suggest you get your attitude in check.. :boss:

[midnitefarmer]

I burn the flag.
Does that make me less of an American? The constitution protects my rights to believe whatever I want. It also protects my right to burn the flag.
Simply not saluting a flag is no reflection of how the man performs his job.

On wall street not liking the bailout - Who the fuck cares what they think? You dont think its ironic the people who are bitching about how they get the money are the ones who are actually getting the money? Sorry, if I'm drowning and someone gets me a liferope, I dont care what strings are attached or how they get me the lifeline. Wall Street has no place to complain.

Hey MF - yu get that ad from the fascist news channel..err I mean fox news channel? HAHAHA.

I dont agree with burning the flag ,,,but that shit is so old and overplayed that the shock value is completely gone....cmon use you can come up with a better way to desecrate the flag than a simple burning....:roll:

as far as wallstreet...i wasnt talking about any certain people or executives as much as i was talking about the market in general....and for what its worth we there are million and millions of everyday ordinary people who care very much what happens in thw stock market because of ira's and 401k's and the like....there alot more people in the stock market nowadays.....

no useless i didnt get the ad from fnc....i actually got it from the propaganda wing of the democrat national comittee at MSNBC.......: p

[Useless]

No I actually was serious about burning the flag. And I do agree with MF, it really has lost (not quite all as we clearly see here) its shock value. But that wasnt my point.

My point was made for me by LOTW. Fanatical right winger can't carry on a simple conversation if someone has a differening viewpoint, some different beliefs. Thats what I love about people with no thought processes of their own, when they hit something they dont understand they try to bash it and break it down. It's just like a 3 year old breaking a toy and having a crying hissy fit because he doesnt know how it works. He continues to make my point for me everytime he posts.

I love how I must be trying to be cool because of my political beliefs. That arguement holds no water. HAHA. Truely makes no sense. And if you're still worried about "cool" people and "uncool" people, go back to high school.

And LOTW, your thinly veiled internet threat doesnt scare me. In person I would burn the flag in your hand for talking to me like you have. And thats no threat, you can ask anybody who knows me if they doubt that statement for a second. Well, it maybe construed as a threat to your flag.

And not because you chose to call me names because you obviously have 0 debate skills, but you have just earned yourself a verbal warning for thinly veiled threat. Him just a whittle guy but he sure can talk big on the net.




Propaganda wing of the DNC @ MSNBC! Classic MF, too funny dude!
Yea bro, my 401K is all wrapped up in this bullshit too, so I know what you mean by that. My portfolio, along with everyone elses Im sure, looks like a man with parkinsons was trying to draw the graph.

[SFC]

Yea, LOTW if you are going to participate in this political forum you need to act like a rational adult. No need to name call, or make bullshit internet threats. Here is a newsflash for you . "WE ARE ALL JUST PEASANTS". Keep that in mind at all times.

[LordOfTheWeeds]

i never made a threat SFC :thumbsup:

useless im not responding to you as i said before youre just a cocksucker im done talkin with you on this thread, come out my way bro i got 5 grand for you if you do. i got the money and i dont lie so common? : pipe:

my attitude is fine hes the idiot that came over here started shit

im waitin

bye

[SFC]

Man. LOTW you are putting me in a bad spot bro. We can't have people calling each other cocksucker,and laying out money over an internet pissing match. Slow your roll, or its going to be timeout. You are an adult man, act like it.

[Useless]

i never made a threat SFC :thumbsup:

useless im not responding to you as i said before youre just a cocksucker im done talkin with you on this thread, come out my way bro i got 5 grand for you if you do. i got the money and i dont lie so common? : pipe:

my attitude is fine hes the idiot that came over here started shit

im waitin

bye


Excellent LOTW. You kept going and now you just got a 3 day ban. Looks like you're going to be waiting for a while. Wanna try for a perma ban? :russian:

Is that a $5K invitation to come kick your ass? LMAO. You are fucking retarded. :kiddo:

Now, after 3 days when you can come back, I hope you can discuss matters in a civil fashion, and with more logic than you have shown in here thus far.

Buh Bye now.

[Edward Scissorhash]

Dude if you're offering 5k for an asskicking I'll take it. I've had my ass kicked for no money before, so 5k sounds pretty good. :bongdude:

[midnitefarmer]

Dude if you're offering 5k for an asskicking I'll take it. I've had my ass kicked for no money before, so 5k sounds pretty good. :bongdude:

:lmao:

[midnitefarmer]

Look everybody,,,I know that politics can stir some very passionate emotions but please lets try to keep it at least civil.....after all,,, we are all in this shit together whether we agree with each other or not....:thumbsup:...

[nowherefast]

ive said it before, if you cant have a legitimate argument, without dropping it to the level of name calling, you dont belong here and will be treated as such.

this forum is for duscussing issues, and if that cant be done rationally, find the fucking door or have it shown to you. now carry on haha.


:bonghits:

[Stash]

Dude if you're offering 5k for an asskicking I'll take it. I've had my ass kicked for no money before, so 5k sounds pretty good. :bongdude:

Right !

You all need to remember we are different....Some of you see the flag as the symbol of oppression..Or a mockery of what our country stands for....BUT, there are some of us who have different connections with the stars and bars...For some of us it reminds us when they removed it from the cover of our loved ones coffin.....Or the way mom, sister, grandma, or friend looked at the soldier who was handing it to them and saying "i'm sorry for your loss"....

To some of you it's just a flag....To some of us it's not...Respect each other...

[greenthumbdanny]

If ya all noticed, I kept my mouth closed. :lmao: Its very hard for me, I think I almost got it..

[Useless]

If ya all noticed, I kept my mouth closed. :lmao: Its very hard for me, I think I almost got it..


Now THAT was funny!!!! hahahahaha

[midnitefarmer]

If ya all noticed, I kept my mouth closed. :lmao: Its very hard for me, I think I almost got it..

I know the feeling gtd,,,,im getting ALOT better at biting my tongue.....;) ...after all its only the damn interweb....

[Fishman]

That was hilarious

[Useless]

Wow look what the cat drug in. Its a fish. :rasta2:

Heya Fishy, been a long time dude. Good to see you around.

[SFC]

Fishman! How the hell are ya? You throw in the towel,and start growing yet, or still playing the role of family guy? LOL.:thumbsup:

[BlowsTrees]

LOL i hope he's staying at home and not eating out lol...


I feel this would be an appropriate place to put this letter I recieved this morning. I personally agree with it 100%. Anybody have any other opinions that they wish to express??

To All My Valued Employees,

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a Back Story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years company party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

However, what you don't see is the BACK STORY :

I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100ïfortrt into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission.. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business -- hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, someday, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day.. There is no rest. There is no weekend. There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden -- the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations... you never realize the Back Story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bailout all the people who didn't. The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.

Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.

Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand ... to stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.

When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it. Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.

So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.

If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I'll fire you and your coworkers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever. If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about....

Signed, THE BOSS

"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher


Fucking right I say...Who else?

[SFC]

There is much truth in the authors words. I could relate to most of it. And if they keep putting the screws to us that is what is going to happen. How many times have you guys heard me say I would like to go down to the carribbean and start over? Looks like I am not alone.

[Fishman]

Its not ok to help home owners? But it is ok to bail out banks and big business? This was started by Bush by the way. GOP is bitching about Obamas package. Where were they when Bush racked up 800 billion in war costs? Where were they when Bush came up with his crap stimulus package? Obamas plan is less than 1 trillion. where did the rest of the 10 trillion debt come from? Bush Bush Bush and his little helpers.

And we are all paying the bill. Is not just some business man who struggles to the top. We all pay it and our children will pay it. Why werent you repubs bitching when Bush was sending this country down the toilet? you only bitch now when there is someone who wants to fix it. I dont know whether obamas plan is good or not. But look at what your choices for government did the last 8 years. Its hard to listen to anyone that has displayed such bad judgment as you as all did.

By the way, taxes havn't gone up yet but every month records are broken on people losing there jobs. So don't blame it on higher taxes. Its the frozen credit market. Letters like the one above aren't real. They are written through someone's agenda and strategy. Anybody can do that to support anything. and everyone will say "I can relate to a lot in that". Its strategy. Its written by people who knw how to play the game. do you really think McCain and Palin believed that not saying the pledge or Bill Ayers shit? They didn't believe that crap. They could have really cared less. They know how to play the game. And even after both these things were proven wrong over and over again people still spout that crap. People still think Obama is a muslim too.

Hey SFC, I dont grow or smoke anymore. lol Just thought I'd poke a head in and say hi.

[BlowsTrees]

Excellent post fish. :thumbsup:

[Useless]

Excellent points fishy.

[Edward Scissorhash]

Its not ok to help home owners? But it is ok to bail out banks and big business? This was started by Bush by the way. GOP is bitching about Obamas package. Where were they when Bush racked up 800 billion in war costs? Where were they when Bush came up with his crap stimulus package? Obamas plan is less than 1 trillion. where did the rest of the 10 trillion debt come from? Bush Bush Bush and his little helpers.

And we are all paying the bill. Is not just some business man who struggles to the top. We all pay it and our children will pay it. Why werent you repubs bitching when Bush was sending this country down the toilet? you only bitch now when there is someone who wants to fix it. I dont know whether obamas plan is good or not. But look at what your choices for government did the last 8 years. Its hard to listen to anyone that has displayed such bad judgment as you as all did.

By the way, taxes havn't gone up yet but every month records are broken on people losing there jobs. So don't blame it on higher taxes. Its the frozen credit market. Letters like the one above aren't real. They are written through someone's agenda and strategy. Anybody can do that to support anything. and everyone will say "I can relate to a lot in that". Its strategy. Its written by people who knw how to play the game. do you really think McCain and Palin believed that not saying the pledge or Bill Ayers shit? They didn't believe that crap. They could have really cared less. They know how to play the game. And even after both these things were proven wrong over and over again people still spout that crap. People still think Obama is a muslim too.

Hey SFC, I dont grow or smoke anymore. lol Just thought I'd poke a head in and say hi.

Ummm, does the name Barney Frank ring a bell?? Is he a repub?? Does he/democrats bear any responsibility, or is it all Bush lol (who I think is a fucking tool and I agree with you on that).

[Fishman]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not deifying democrats. The ybear some responsibility also. the yshould have all had a pair of balls. But the vast amount of blame goes to repubs.

By the way I would not consider myself to be a democrat. I am a straight up socialist leftist. But I don't want America to be as extreme as me. I can recognize extremism from any source is bad. Extreme christianity is the same as extreme Islam.

[SFC]

Well, Glad you stopped in and straightened us out Pesco. Hang around for a bit, you can get all of us neo-cons straightened back out lol. I am not a neo-con it was a joke. I am a small business owner though, and I know we are getting our asses kicked.

[Edward Scissorhash]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not deifying democrats. The ybear some responsibility also. the yshould have all had a pair of balls. But the vast amount of blame goes to repubs.

By the way I would not consider myself to be a democrat. I am a straight up socialist leftist. But I don't want America to be as extreme as me. I can recognize extremism from any source is bad. Extreme christianity is the same as extreme Islam.

Good post fish, bravo!: pipe:

[Edward Scissorhash]

Well, Glad you stopped in and straightened us out Pesco. Hang around for a bit, you can get all of us neo-cons straightened back out lol. I am not a neo-con it was a joke. I am a small business owner though, and I know we are getting our asses kicked.

Yeah you are SFC. Best of luck with the biz bro.

[Fishman]

Can I ask what your business is?

[Stash]

he makes a living traveling town to town protesting soldiers funerals

[Fishman]

That's cool. Igo town to town hitting on their widows.

[Stash]

you guys should team up.....

[Fishman]

Sure. As long as I go first.

[Useless]

And here I thought I was the lone soul out on the fringes of the extreme left.
Cheers fishy hahaha.

[Edward Scissorhash]

That's cool. Igo town to town hitting on their widows.

I've heard that works. Hit 'em when they're down and all:bongdude: ..........

[midnitefarmer]

Its not ok to help home owners? But it is ok to bail out banks and big business? This was started by Bush by the way. GOP is bitching about Obamas package. Where were they when Bush racked up 800 billion in war costs? Where were they when Bush came up with his crap stimulus package? Obamas plan is less than 1 trillion. where did the rest of the 10 trillion debt come from? Bush Bush Bush and his little helpers.

And we are all paying the bill. Is not just some business man who struggles to the top. We all pay it and our children will pay it. Why werent you repubs bitching when Bush was sending this country down the toilet? you only bitch now when there is someone who wants to fix it. I dont know whether obamas plan is good or not. But look at what your choices for government did the last 8 years. Its hard to listen to anyone that has displayed such bad judgment as you as all did.

By the way, taxes havn't gone up yet but every month records are broken on people losing there jobs. So don't blame it on higher taxes. Its the frozen credit market. Letters like the one above aren't real. They are written through someone's agenda and strategy. Anybody can do that to support anything. and everyone will say "I can relate to a lot in that". Its strategy. Its written by people who knw how to play the game. do you really think McCain and Palin believed that not saying the pledge or Bill Ayers shit? They didn't believe that crap. They could have really cared less. They know how to play the game. And even after both these things were proven wrong over and over again people still spout that crap. People still think Obama is a muslim too.

Hey SFC, I dont grow or smoke anymore. lol Just thought I'd poke a head in and say hi.

Welcome back fishman.....

Its not ok to help homeowners who took loans that they couldnt affordand never will pay them back no matter how much help they get....no its not ok to bailout big business or banks...but if id rather bail them out than some useless leach who cant pay there bills...at least business and banks are trying to produce something....i believe the war costs were necessary expenditures and obama must also because he is asking for 75 billion more for those wars.....bushs crap stimulus package put a total of 2400.00 dollars in my pocket..obamas stimulus will put 13.50 a week in my pocket until january and then its 8.50 a week for a few months...,,,now really which one is crap?obamas plan is more than a trillion this year and then the shit becomes the states burden,,,plus he is not done yet ..he will be back for more.....as far as blame it should be shared equally because the dems controlled the senate for the past 3 years and bush couldnt do shit without the dems approval and votes......

as for taxes not up yet.....youre right they havent gone up yet but they are going for everybody and businesses are cutting people loose because they see it coming...the credit markets are/were frozen because of barney frank and chris dodd mandating to the banks that they would make loans to people or face stiff penalties from the government so dont act like that was a rebublican move...in fact the bush admin tried for several years to get congress to tighten the lending restrictions and were stopped at every turn by pelosi and reid and frank and dodd.......

I know obamas plan is shit and it will be proven out over the next 4 years...its already been done man remember the 70s? and the Carter misery index?..well its gonna be back.....

1 TRILLION DOLLARS IN NEW TAXES COMING TO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD...

Obama's Budget: Almost $1 Trillion in New Taxes Over Next 10 yrs, Starting 2011
February 26, 2009 12:00 PM

President Obama's budget proposes $989 billion in new taxes over the course of the next 10 years, starting fiscal year 2011, most of which are tax increases on individuals.

1) On people making more than $250,000.

$338 billion - Bush tax cuts expire
$179 billlion - eliminate itemized deduction
$118 billion - capital gains tax hike

Total: $636 billion/10 years

2) Businesses:

$17 billion - Reinstate Superfund taxes
$24 billion - tax carried-interest as income
$5 billion - codify "economic substance doctrine"
$61 billion - repeal LIFO
$210 billion - international enforcement, reform deferral, other tax reform
$4 billion - information reporting for rental payments
$5.3 billion - excise tax on Gulf of Mexico oil and gas
$3.4 billion - repeal expensing of tangible drilling costs
$62 million - repeal deduction for tertiary injectants
$49 million - repeal passive loss exception for working interests in oil and natural gas properties
$13 billion - repeal manufacturing tax deduction for oil and natural gas companies
$1 billion - increase to 7 years geological and geophysical amortization period for independent producers
$882 million - eliminate advanced earned income tax credit

Total: $353 billion/10 years

[Fishman]

As far as home owners go....I dont think its as simple as just calling them all leaches. ALthough

I would by no means absolve them all of responsibility. I knew 10 years ago when I looked around and saw all the huge cars and spending on credit that something was destined to crack. Definitly glad I never bought into spending today and paying tomorrow. I dont see a problem with making loan companies renegotiate interest rates. The ylose no money that way as long as the agreed upon principle is payed. I've never really understood giving the poorest people the highest interest rates. Why make it harder for the poor to pay? I personally believe in squatting and shoplifting.

As far as the rest goes only time will tell.

[SFC]

I am willing to give Obama a chance. But I am already getting nervous about some of these proposals. I am in a pretty resilient industry though, and have amazing flexibility to skirt around laws. So I will do what I must to survive,and help my crew survive. If it gets to the point though where I am being punished for all of the SSI,and welfare rats then I am booking it out of this country for good. I have the capital,and the credit to make a pretty good start anywhere on the planet (pretty much)